Speeding - Putting the Prosecution to Proof

[venividivici]

Dear All,

Hope you are well.

Would be really grateful for your advice:

NIP for 96 in a 70 motorway (silly of me and lesson well and truely learnt)

I really wanted to resolve this without a formal court conviction. Mainly as a court convictions become formal criminal convictions requiring disclosure as opposed to FPN's which are not 'convictions' per se and never have to be mentioned on any form ( be that VISA's jobs etc - I am aware speeding on it own is non-recordable but if asked motoring offences are not specifically excluded this will require disclosure).

Ive had a clean license for 10 years. I thereby (perhaps unwittingly!) contacted the police asking whether the matter could be dealt with via FPN instead of via a court route. They very sternly declined. I should mention I made more than one representation.

My question is, I fully realise I have very few options left now in not getting a formal court conviction, as I've been given an SJPN with only a couple of days left to reply.
Im aware I do not have a factual defence but was essentially just hoping to put the prosecution to proof following a not guilty plea ( as per my legal rights) as I have nil to lose. I know certain disclosure requirements are not always met, which can result in favourable outcomes.

I appreciate this is a niche question but was wondering if anyone had taken this approach before and how to go about it? What disclosure do you usually ask for and at what time during the process?
I have approached many driving solicitors but not located one I feel comfortable with in offering assistance.

Thank you all in advance!

[islandgirl]

How were you convicted? Camera? These are regularly checked and monitored and you would have little chance of saying the camera was faulty. Exactly what discolsure requirements are you hoping to prove faulty? You have a lot to lose financially - court costs and fine related to income for example.

[venividivici]

Dear ISLANDGIRL,

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply.

I was captured via HADECS camera.

They had the calibration certificate on the website that I have attached. I presume this is genuine?

I am aware I risk losing the credit for the early guilty plea. I hear some cases are discontinued due to resources etc or a delay in handing filed from police to CPS, although am aware this is probably a straight forward case for the prosecution.

I did consider wondering whether I could mitigate and ( 0 points, clean license, empty motorway, good driving conditions) and ask for 'conditional discharge' whilst still imposing the relevant points and fine etc as it really is just the semantics of a formal criminal conviction I am trying to avoid - although I realise this is unlikely at this stage!

[wales01man]

Can you get an expert o dispute the calibration? Seems impossible take the penalty or look for a good solicitor

[islandgirl]

You will not be able to dispute the calibration unless the certificate you have is out of date or similar. A statement is read out every time in court with all the proof that the machine is accurate. It would be unlikely that a quick sentencing would be discontinued due to resources or delays. This is bread and butter for us - we can do lots in a day! You can mitigate of course but we would not be impressed by good driving conditions and empty motorway. They are not excuses. You will be fined (income related) and get points and there will be costs to pay (usually £85 where I am) Here are the guidelines
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...s/Speeding.pdf
There are specialist solicitors who do what you are looking for (remember Mr Loophole?) so you could of course go and ask one if you have a chance.

[HandyAndy]

I think the advice you received "elsewhere" was fairly comprehensive. However, I'll address your main points here:

I know certain disclosure requirements are not always met, which can result in favourable outcomes.

What disclosure do you usually ask for and at what time during the process?

Once you have your SJPN you should also have the "Initial Details of the Prosecution Case" (IDPC). This should be the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you. Unless there is anything missing that's all the disclosure you are entitled to and all you are likely to get. Do you believe there is anything missing?

I did consider wondering whether I could mitigate and ( 0 points, clean license, empty motorway, good driving conditions) and ask for 'conditional discharge' whilst still imposing the relevant points and fine etc as it really is just the semantics of a formal criminal conviction I am trying to avoid

It's not going to happen but it wouldn't matter if it did. You would still have been convicted. A Conditional Discharge is simply a disposal available to the court to deal with those convicted.

You will not be able to dispute the calibration unless the certificate you have is out of date or similar. A statement is read out every time in court with all the proof that the machine is accurate. It would be unlikely that a quick sentencing would be discontinued due to resources or delays.

I think you misunderstand, IG (though I have the benefit of having seen the OP's post elsewhere).

He's not considering mounting any sort of technical defence. This is not in the least because he doesn't appear to have one. He is anxious to avoid a criminal conviction. Having tried and failed to get the police to deal with the offence by way of a fixed penalty (he is 1mph too fast) he is now considering relying on a NG plea and "putting the prosecution to proof" (i.e. raising no issues that are disputed, as he should under the Case Management guidance, but simply insisting that the prosecution proves its case).. He then goes on to place his hopes on some sort of procedural error or failure to see him acquitted, hoping (for example and among other things) that there may be a "disclosure" failure. As above, he already has all the disclosure he is likely to get. Elsewhere he has even suggested approaching the CPS (who will take over the case from the police if a NG plea is entered) to get them to discontinue the matter under their "public interest" test (stage two of their two-part test for prosecution).

None of this is remotely likely to be successful and failure (no discount for a guilty plea and costs of >£600) will be very costly.

[islandgirl]

Thanks HandyAndy but I don't think I did misunderstand. The OP had said
"They had the calibration certificate on the website that I have attached. I presume this is genuine?"
and there was some discussion of calibration etc.
He also said
"I hear some cases are discontinued due to resources etc or a delay in handing filed from police to CPS, although am aware this is probably a straight forward case for the prosecution."
which I addressed.
I entirely agree with your post and that there is no prospect of success leading to a very expensive bill!

[HandyAndy]

I think we're both probably at a disadvantage, IG. In some respects he is seeking to have the prosecution discontinued entirely whilst in others he is suggesting that there may be a technical defence he can take advantage of. However, questioning whether a calibration certificate shown on an official police website is genuine does seem to indicate that there is some serious straw grasping going on!

[islandgirl]

Absolutely! I think a Mr Loophole type of person would be the only straw to cling to but whether they would find anything is another matter - and they are EXTREMELY expensive.