Distance Sale?

[Housebound]

Got evidence that they provide a delivery service to customers? Does that count

[Manxman]

Got evidence that they provide a delivery service to customers? Does that count

Not necessarily. You could have bought the car at the dealer's premises and arranged to have it delivered.

I'd have thought this question was quite simple to answer by looking at how the dealer operates generally and how in particular you came to buy this car.

If - for example - the dealer advertises on a website and allows people to buy cars without ever seeing those cars, and without those people ever visiting the dealer's premises, and without the dealer ever meeting them, and the whole sale process is conducted and concluded exclusively by telephone, or by email, or via the website, or via some other distance method, then I'd have thought it must be a distance sale. It would be difficult for the dealer to deny they operated such a scheme if this is how they sell cars.

So is that how the dealer generally operates - or is there something different about this particular sale? (I'm not saying that being different would necessarily prevent it being a distance sale, but it would help to have more detail)

FWIW it sounds like a distance contract to me - but I don't know all the details of the sales process so I don't know whether or not if complies with all the statutory requirements to make it a distance contract.

Even if it is a distance sale you'll still need to establish that the dealer never provided the required cancellation information and that therefore (1) the cancellation window is extended beyond 14 days, and (2) they can't make a deduction from your refund for "diminution in value".

TBH I'd have thought that if they had a business model that relied on sales by distance contract, then they would have made sure that this requirement was covered in the "small print".


[Edit: This will interest you. See what they say about "click and deliver"? They also mention extension of the cancellation window if the dealer does not provide the required cancellation information. But nothing about the effect of that - if any - on the refund:Click & Collect or Click & Deliver – How does it work? – Lawgistics. The article is three years old but I don't see why it would not still apply]

[Housebound]

Some of the evidence I have, pictures from social media etc shows the company saying "such and such car bought as unseen cos of our reputation on its way delivered by us"

As mentioned literally 0 paperwork but a used car receipt and all the invoices that came with the car

[Housebound]

Regarding click and deliver, I asked via WhatsApp if a deposit is needed which they replied sure go ahead. Well apparently today's the day it gets passed to there legal team so we'll see

[Housebound]

The trader has just replied to my letter stating.

"We have discussed this with our legal team, and looked at all of the information regarding the purchase of the
vehicle. Whilst you did pay a deposit remotely for the Vehicle, you had a representative visit our premises who did
inspect the vehicle on your behalf before delivering the vehicle to yourself under your instruction and paid for by
yourself. Furthermore, we confirmed through telecom amongst our many discussions before you paid the holding
fee that the holding fee was fully refundable, your representative informed you of any damage to the vehicle or
indeed if you were to change your mind and not want to go ahead with the purchase for any reason. The above
means that this sale is not classed as a ‘distance sale’."

[atticus]

Is what they say about a representative correct? It has not been mentioned before.

[Housebound]

It's the delivery company who as part of there process inspect all vehicles before loading them onto a trailer. The contract was already concluded before then. Even myself could go and pick up the vehicle it has no change on being a distance sale

[Housebound]

Sent a new letter to the dealership in response to them rejecting my cancellation under Distance Selling Regs, stating the reasons why this is a Distance Sale, and even quoting the regulations and that I will issue court action if needed. And they are now referring back to the legal team ......

[Manxman]

Is what they say about a representative correct? It has not been mentioned before.

To be fair he did say in #7 that he had arranged collection of the car. It wasn't arranged by the dealer. So it's more a click and collect and not a click and deliver

[atticus]

To be equally fair, it was not clear whether they meant someone else by this representative.

[Housebound]

Surely them mentioninb "representative" why wouldn't they say what it the person actually was in there response.... A delivery transport company employee that the dealership knows and has used before. Just I sourced them myself AFTER the car was fully paid for AWAY from the premises through WhatsApp, wonder why they are passing it back to the "legal team" just cos im threatening court action? Can't be much of a legal team if there first response is "you had a representative come to our premises" so it's not a distance sale

[Housebound]

And the telecom call about the holding fee being refundable and that I don't have to go ahead never happened. Only telephone call we had was for me to ask how long is the warranty with the vehicle to which they replied 3 months

[Manxman]

It's the delivery company who as part of there process inspect all vehicles before loading them onto a trailer. The contract was already concluded before then. Even myself could go and pick up the vehicle it has no change on being a distance sale

[Edit: See edit at end]

Hmmm. As you suggest, I don't see that it makes any difference whether somebody collected the car on your behalf, or you collected it yourself.

The only legal questions are (1) whether the contrcat had been concluded before your representative arrived to collect the car, and (2) whether everything up to and including the conclusion of the contract had been exclusively carried out by distance means of communication without you meeting the dealer.

A couple of points raised by the dealer cause me a little concern.

They refer to a holding fee that was fully refundable and they claim this means it was not a distance sale. If you refer to the lawgistics site that I linked to in a previous post, you will see that they give this advice to dealers:

"The only alternative, if you want to safely avoid a distance sale, is to take a holding deposit which you refund when the consumer arrives. You then let them look over the car, perhaps take a short test drive and then take the whole balance. This would be counted as a Click & Collect on-premises sale but will mean the consumer is not bound to purchase the car."

So,

- was it a deposit or a holding fee that you paid?

- if a holding fee, was it actually refunded to you when your representative arrived to collect the car?

- when did you pay the balance?

- I presume your "representative" didn't carry out a test drive, but how far was he authorised to inspect the car and perhaps reject it on your behalf? Could he have contacted you and advised you not to buy it?

I suspect your position might be a bit more complicated than it at first appeared...

Incidentally, I'm not saying the argument put forward by lawgistics on their site is necessarily correct*, but your dealer seems to be taking a similar approach to them, and you might have a fight on your hands with this one.


*I think I've seen lawgistics mentioned on several threads here as advising members of the motor trade. I'm not sure that the more knowledgeable posters on here think much of them.

But I'm not one of the more knowledgeable posters so don't just rely on what I say. See what others say.

[Edit crossposted with Housebound Well if you want to dispute whether the holding fee (if it was a holding fee) was refundable it'll come down to "he said/she said" and which of you a court believes]

[Housebound]

Literally asked if I could place a deposit, nothing about a holding fee... And nothing has been refunded to me

[Housebound]

"Representative" aka delivery man did a quick walk around vehicle before loading onto covered trailer. Remainder of final balance was paid couple hours before representative arrived