Used car trader will only take car back, and not entertain any checks / repairs

[Davvo]

Hello

Please bear with me, I'm really struggling with poor mental health at the moment - my anxiety is sky high.

This is the 3rd car I've purchased in 4 months. I thought I'd finally found a decent car from a reputable trader. All I want is a car that is safe to drive, and I can't take much more.


So I purchased this car up country 2.5 weeks ago, as I couldn't find a car to suit my needs or budget locally after endless searching.

The car was bought from a trader who have their own garage workshop.
I arranged an independent engineers inspection, and though that picked up some issues which the trader said they had rectified, they said they were too busy to do do the work themselves, and outsourced the work somewhere.
The inspection didn't cover all areas of the car, stating many parts couldn't be seen without disassembly.

I paid £250 extra for a new timing belt and water pump change but apparently the coolant (which should have been changed with the pump) is contaminated.


Back here over three drives, the car has 3 issues.. 1 being an intermittent 'clunk' issue under brake foot pedal (with grinding brakes) which is getting worse, 2 the car is overheating and temp gauge is not working, and 3, the power steering is faulty with the car very heavy to manoeuvre / park up (though I was told that a leaking power steering switch was replaced prior to sale)


I have emailed the trader who says he is in disbelief at what I am reporting, and insinuating that I am lying.
Going on advice to pass on, I asked if I could get a full brakes and coolant check done down here. This is all I asked for.
The trader said that the car was fine when sold, has said no to any checks, and says he wants the car back as I am dissatisfied. There is no middle ground, and he is being quite demanding wanting to know when I am returning the car..
He said he will get the car collected but will take £200 off my refund for doing so.

I want to find out what could be wrong with the car first, so have it booked in for some checks middle of this week.

I called the Consumerline today who said to put everything in writing which I already have, and the traders response means I'm stuck.
There is a 3 month aftermarket warranty with the car, but I don't know where I stand with that, with the seller being this way.

If I decide to keep the car, I will have to pay for repairs myself. Can someone advise me on my rights please?

Thanks

[DE DOGS]

Back here over three drives, the car has 3 issues.. 1 being an intermittent 'clunk' issue under brake foot pedal (with grinding brakes) which is getting worse, 2 the car is overheating and temp gauge is not working, and 3, the power steering is faulty with the car very heavy to manoeuvre / park up (though I was told that a leaking power steering switch was replaced prior to sale)
I will try and reply in order. Grinding brakes. (1) Brake Pards worn out, possibly also damage to the Disc. (2) Overhearing usually that means the Head Gasket has blown Plus there could be more damage but that will need a compression test to be certain. (3) Power steering can be the Pump that has worn out, but can be other problems, but a decent garage would sort that for you. Last of all never buy a car without a full check so may I recommend the AA check the car, may cost, but at least you will know the car is as described and you are not throwing money after bad.

[des8]

Some questions first
Make & model?
Age?
Mileage?
price paid?
Date delivered?

What do you want as an outcome.... to reject vehicle and recover full cost or have it repaired?

[Davvo]

Back here over three drives, the car has 3 issues.. 1 being an intermittent 'clunk' issue under brake foot pedal (with grinding brakes) which is getting worse, 2 the car is overheating and temp gauge is not working, and 3, the power steering is faulty with the car very heavy to manoeuvre / park up (though I was told that a leaking power steering switch was replaced prior to sale)
I will try and reply in order. Grinding brakes. (1) Brake Pards worn out, possibly also damage to the Disc. (2) Overhearing usually that means the Head Gasket has blown Plus there could be more damage but that will need a compression test to be certain. (3) Power steering can be the Pump that has worn out, but can be other problems, but a decent garage would sort that for you. Last of all never buy a car without a full check so may I recommend the AA check the car, may cost, but at least you will know the car is as described and you are not throwing money after bad.

Hello

I did have the car checked out:

"I arranged an independent engineers inspection, and though that picked up some issues..."

I did look up about a pressure test, but warnings are out there for older vehicles, as the test itself can cause elderly parts such as hoses to tear, and damage to thin radiator fins. I know little about cars but read this.

This was the test I mentioned to the trader before I read about it.

I don't think the head gasket has gone (yet) as there's no steam, nor leaks, nor milky gunk in the coolant (I looked up usual symptoms to expect)

The brake pads I agree will likely be worn due to the light grind sound, but that 'clunk' under foot on only very low braking speed makes no sense to me. Any ideas on that please?

[Davvo]

Some questions first
Make & model?
Age?
Mileage?
price paid?
Date delivered?

What do you want as an outcome.... to reject vehicle and recover full cost or have it repaired?

Hello

I want to keep the car and have it repaired, but the trader doesn't want that.

It's a Renault Kangoo.
2006 model.
Mileage 65k

It wasn't delivered through the trader, as I wasn't well it was picked up on my behalf by the independent engineer I had already employed and brought down here 26th June,
BUT I paid a deposit 12th June and paid the balance 21st June, so I guess the purchase date would be 12th June? Could you advise me on this point please?

Thank you

[des8]

Date of delivery will be the date your agent picked up the car.

You have 30 days from then in which to reject the vehicle and claim a full refund (no deductions to be made for collection!)

Alternatively you can request a repair, but if that is disproportionate (as the cost of any labour, materials or postage has to be borne by the trader) he can refuse and you will then be left with a choice between rejection or negotiating a price reduction.

Hence the question about price paid
Also how did you pay for the vehicle ..cash/finance/credit card?

You mention that prior to purchase the car was checked by an engineer.
Did he not pick up on the brakes or the heavy steering?

[Davvo]

Date of delivery will be the date your agent picked up the car.

You have 30 days from then in which to reject the vehicle and claim a full refund (no deductions to be made for collection!)

Alternatively you can request a repair, but if that is disproportionate (as the cost of any labour, materials or postage has to be borne by the trader) he can refuse and you will then be left with a choice between rejection or negotiating a price reduction.

Hence the question about price paid
Also how did you pay for the vehicle ..cash/finance/credit card?

You mention that prior to purchase the car was checked by an engineer.
Did he not pick up on the brakes or the heavy steering?

Hello DES8

Thank you.

The car was £3,645 (£3,395 & £250 for the timing belt and water pump add-ons)

I paid by bank transfer - I did ask to pay some by credit card which would have helped me out, but the trader said they didn't take them.

The engineer looked at car on jacks, when the trader had an inspection bay to use. I've no idea why this was done.


The car was only test driven by him 4 miles total, and if the route was pretty straight, then the heavy power steering is not noticeable if that makes sense. The car is even heavier to drive from cold, and if the car was warmed first, that makes a difference too.

Brakes weren't inspected, or other items that were stated as 'obscured' on the report, such as checking if the timing belt or water pump have actually been replaced.
(Inspectors are not allowed to remove wheels, or remove any components. It's all done by eye only)

The engineer did come back last week and drove it with me as passenger.
He did experience the 'clunk' that time under the brake pedal. I told the inspector I wanted to keep the car, but just have the repairs sorted by the trader. He agreed that was a good idea.
Back at his home, he called the trader on my behalf as I wasn't up to speaking to him.

The inspector then emailed me advising I ask the trader for a coolant pressure test and brakes test. I did that, and that was the first no, and that the car was fine, and I'd had an inspection.
They have chatted since I believe, and things don't quite add up. The inspector is now changing opinion and saying to return the car, and that he would return it for me for additional payment.


Tomorrow I leave the car at a repairs garage for some checks (not for any work to be done, just assessment only)

The trader HAS NOT agreed to me doing this, and will be more angry because of it. I feel I have no option, because I can't make any judgement until I know what is wrong.


p.s
I looked at what the warranty covers, and saw it states 'overheating' of any kind is exempt from claims. I don't even know when the warranty can be called upon either.

I just remembered something that Consumerline said too - that because the trader didn't deliver the car to me, then to have repairs done at the traders premises (if I could get him to agree) then I would have to cover the £200 payment for him to collect it (then pay it again for the car to be brought back)
That doesn't seem right to me.


Thanks

[des8]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA2015) applies to NI (which I assume is where you are viewing your reference to Consumerline).
That Act requires in the event of a rejection for the consumer to make the goods available for collection (sec20(7)) and the trader to bear any reasonable costs of returning them unless the consumer returns them in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.(sec20 (8))

If the consumer opts for repair the trader "bear[s] any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage" (sec23(2))

IMO Consumerline were wrong in their advice.

Was the engineer you employed qualified? I can't believe he didn't inspect the brakes!

[Davvo]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 (CRA2015) applies to NI (which I assume is where you are viewing your reference to Consumerline).
That Act requires in the event of a rejection for the consumer to make the goods available for collection (sec20(7)) and the trader to bear any reasonable costs of returning them unless the consumer returns them in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them.(sec20 (8))

If the consumer opts for repair the trader "bear[s] any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage" (sec23(2))

IMO Consumerline were wrong in their advice.

Was the engineer you employed qualified? I can't believe he didn't inspect the brakes!

Hi

Sorry, I meant the UK Consumer Helpline :-(

It's not the first time CAB gave me wrong advice actually - Me and my child nearly lost our home when they assured me my deserted partner would have to pay the jointly owned mortgage as normal...


Yes the engineer is qualified, but they only really do a skim around - noting but not touching components etc,
The one before him only test drove a car 2 miles, and didn't note constant knocking under the car or oil leaks. Nor turned on the air con which made an awful noise. That car bellowed choking black smoke under the bonnet first drive and had to be rejected back to dealer.
£600 I've spent on now on engineer costs.

Feedback I'm getting on a Kangoo forum is the fixes are going to be costly, inc labour costs. I'll know more in a couple of days when the car is back.

The trader is saying "you had an inspection, so there is nothing we can do apart from take the car back promptly (minus £200)"
I'll email him tomorrow and let him know the car is in the garage.

[DE DOGS]

Sorry to say this, but whatever happened between the dealer ?. and the so-called inspector leaves much to be thought about. I would not waste any more money take back money from the dealer and think that's that's sorted. because me you are going to spend a lot more on that car, that is just my thoughts and I have experience repairing cars/lorries for the last 60 odd years nobody can inspect a vehicle by just looking at it if you paid for inspection prior to buying, my opinion is more money down the drain.

[des8]

I would be considering writing to dealer rejecting the vehicle, requesting a full refund and telling him the vehicle is awaiting his collection.
If he deducts money for the collection I would then be prepared to initiate the court process

Please keep us updated

[Davvo]

Sorry to say this, but whatever happened between the dealer ?. and the so-called inspector leaves much to be thought about. I would not waste any more money take back money from the dealer and think that's that's sorted. because me you are going to spend a lot more on that car, that is just my thoughts and I have experience repairing cars/lorries for the last 60 odd years nobody can inspect a vehicle by just looking at it if you paid for inspection prior to buying, my opinion is more money down the drain.

Thank you De Dogs.

My problem is, I only have a small budget and have to buy an older car, so I'll always have to be prepared for repairs with any of them. Anything I buy will be a case of pot luck, but I was drawn to this car due to great service history and its condition inside and out - that's why I was hoping to work with the seller now to get these problems sorted and keep it.

Everywhere says to always have an independent inspection prior to a vehicle purchase, but they don't mean much, and I've spent out on a few of them now. There's focus on interior and exterior cosmetic flaws, tyres, lights and obvious oil leaks, fluids checks, with a quick test drive of a couple of miles, but that's it really.
It's not until you've got the car and driven it properly that drive problems are seen. You've no idea if promised works have been carried out either like in this case, and MOT's are commonly dodgy through traders too. That's been my repeated experience this year.


I'll see what the garage says tomorrow after they've had a look at the car just to diagnose. They did say today they can't get to look at the rear drums without extra time clocked up. This means more money, so those won't be checked.

Thanks again

[Davvo]

I would be considering writing to dealer rejecting the vehicle, requesting a full refund and telling him the vehicle is awaiting his collection.
If he deducts money for the collection I would then be prepared to initiate the court process

Please keep us updated

Hello again Des8

Do you mean start a small claim later on just for the £200?

[des8]

Hello again Des8

Do you mean start a small claim later on just for the £200?

That is what I would be doing if necessary to recover my losses.

Do you trust this dealer to carry out repairs properly?

[Davvo]

That is what I would be doing if necessary to recover my losses.

Do you trust this dealer to carry out repairs properly?

No I don't to be honest. They farmed the car out to an unknown person for repairs needed prior to sale, so will do the same. He won't entertain having the car back for fixes anyway.

Today I found out that there is a definite ABS problem and repairs are needed. I have to go to the seller and tell him but it seems pointless. Even if he agrees, he thinks he can charge £200 to collect the car and then charge again £200 to bring it back.

My only option is to go through the warranty.