Tri Party contracts/advice needed.

[steveeasy]

Hi,
Bought a car on finance in October. Had significant problems with car. In december less than 3 months after buying it, the engine failed. The garage caused this. they will not fix it. the finance company wont deal with it. believe me ive written to both. I then used the AA dealer promise mediation service to resolve the matter. Basically the dealer did not wish to use it. he stated the car was sold without warranty. the mediator showed the dealer my invoice that stated 3 months mechanical breakdown warranty. he then said well it was in house now warranty. he now says limited to 3000 miles. he aleges it is my fault so he cancelled the warranty. I asked the mediator to try again offering the dealer the oppurtunity to inspect the car. he declined. He has ignored every letter ive sent him after purchase requesting details of warranty.

So its a clear cut case. However can I sue him. I bought the car with a big car finance company. everyone tells me to tell the finance company. they wont discuss it. everyone tells me to take car back. dealer wont listen. I am happy to sue the dealer but can I. am I allowed too. Need to do something as I owe 8,000 for the car and the cost of repairs are <4,000 and It cant be used at all. bit unsure.
Thanks
steveeasy

[des8]

The vehicle belongs to the finance house from whom you are hiring it.
Sec 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 makes the finance house equally liable as the supplier.

If you wish to initiate a court claim you proceed against the finance house

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8,
Thanks for your response. I was intending to sue dealer for breaches in relation to 2015 consumer rights Between 30 days and 6 months

If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

• It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
• Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
• In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

The car was faullty at purchase. was repaired but damaged coolant hosse and bodged that. it broke and overheated. the engine failed. the dealer withheld all warranty details.

However
the finance company. I started writing to them with images and letters4 weeks after purchase. no response for 6 weeks. when the engine failed, they took a brief detail. filled in a form without notifying the full facts. Ace inspection for the finance company was dreadfully poor and inaccurate. It reported items critical that needed repair that physically had been. pics added to report of replaced parts fitted, but reported they needed fixing.

Finance company said no to rejecting it. I told them the report was inaccurate. they took no notice. I contacted the company who did report and they corrected it. acknowledging it was wrong. finance company not interested.

Gets a bit tricky in this situation. no wonder dealer laughted when the AA mediator tried to help. he just told them he had no comment.

Ill speak with the finance company.

thanks for the advice.

Steveeasy

[des8]

Finance compaies don't like refunding the monies as it leaves them outr of pocket and having to recover from the dealer (but that is their problem, not yours)

Don't speak with the finance company.
Any communications need to be in writing.
You could use email, but I prefer 1st class Royal Mail with free certificate of posting from post office

Warn them that if they don't resolve the matter to your satisfaction within 14 days you propose to initiate court action without further reference to themselves

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8
Good advice again!. Ill do that. should I head the letter, Letter before Action?. at least I might receive a response.ill update when I hear.
thanks
steveeasy

[des8]

Head it so if you wish

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8.
ok written to them. As far as dealer goes. The AA are making a report that will show the dealer breached the consumer act by withholding details of warranty and indeed then stating the car car was sold without warranty. Can I pursue him for that. The invoice for car was to me. Don’t want to let him get away with that. Car was sold with 3 months mechanical breakdown warranty on the invoice.
thanks steveeasy

[des8]

I wouldn't get side tracked with the warranty, unless it was separately paid for and itemised as such.
If the matter reaches court, the details will be covered in your witness statement

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8.
ok. If it went to court would the action be towards the dealer and finance company if equally liable.

the reason I referred to warranty was if my rights under the 2025 consumer rights were weak which I don’t think they are I still had a warranty that would have covered the matter.
the dealer would not tell me about the warranty though. He then told AA mediator it was sold without warranty. She then showed him my invoice with 90 days mech breakdown cover and he acknowledged it but then said he cancelled it. This is without even inspecting the car. So I sort of think I’ve two routes both covered under the consumer rights. Ie he withrld details of warranty to avoid being liable.

steveeasy

[des8]

You are initiating a claim against the finance company for supplying a vehicle which did not comply with the implied terms of the contract in that it was unsatisfactory as per CRA 2015

Regarding the warranty I'm not sure what you are seeking.
Repairs to the car are down to the finance company if they opt for that rather than a refund
Unless you paid a specific amount for the warranty I don't see that you have a claim under that heading.
If you paid a specific amount you could claim that amount.

[steveeasy]

You are initiating a claim against the finance company for supplying a vehicle which did not comply with the implied terms of the contract in that it was unsatisfactory as per CRA 2015

Regarding the warranty I'm not sure what you are seeking.
Repairs to the car are down to the finance company if they opt for that rather than a refund
Unless you paid a specific amount for the warranty I don't see that you have a claim under that heading.
If you paid a specific amount you could claim that amount.

OK. ill focus on the specifics. CRA 2015..

If the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of goods, the period mentioned in subsection (3) or (4) stops running for the length of the waiting period.

(7)If goods supplied by the trader in response to that request or agreement do not conform to the contract, the time limit for exercising the short-term right to reject is then either—

(a)7 days after the waiting period ends,

Ok ive had a read. 30 days from day of purchase which was 6th October. I wrote to dealer and finance company rejecting it on the 18th November. But, waiting time. the car was returned on the 8th October for 7 full days and returned again on the 7th November 2022 for 10 days. the car was not fixed. I rejected it. so unless I am wrong 42 days minus waiting time 17 days would mean I rejected it after 25 days

Is that the correct way to interpret the ACT. I understand now not to focus on the incidentals.

Thanks
Steveeasy

[des8]

So the vehicle was delivered on 6th October and returned to trader on 8th October for repair
Vehicle redelivered on 15th October but still not satisfactory so returned to trader on 7th November
vehicle redelivered on 17th Nov but till not satisfactory so rejected.

The clock stops ticking when the trader is advised the goods are unsatisfactory, not when they are returned to him.
It only starts ticking again when the goods are delivered back to consumer when they are in a satisfactory condition.
If they are not satisfactory when delivered back to consumer the clock does not restart

IMO the 30 day period stopped on date the trader was advised of problems and it was agreed he should bring it to a satisfactory condition.
At the latest this would be 8th October

[steveeasy]

Hi DES8
The AA mediator has released her timeline of correspondence between dealer and myself. the timeline confirms the dealer first stated the car was sold with no warranty. then he changed his position that it was inhouse warranty. He alleges we continued to drive the car for 600 miles with the oil light on. He also states he is working with the finance company but has no intention to come to find a resolution. The finance company told me the Ace inspection was not being provided to dealer. The dealer did however obtain it from the finance company.

I am suprised by the AA dealer promise Adjudicator, as the scheme rules state if a breach of the 2015 consumer brights act are breached they will make a recommendation to remedy the customer. if the dealer does not do this they will review his place in the AA dealer promise scheme.

I would have thought. the dealer not responding to letters asking for clarification on the warranty and then telling the AA adjudicator the car was sold without warranty, then changing their position would be a clear breach of the ACT.

My understanding is most of this is irrelevant now. I rejected the car on the 17th November due to clear faults present with the car at time of purchase. I gave the dealer a good opportunity to rectify the faults and if he had carried these out and provided written details of warranty I would not have rejucted the vehicle.

Having had the car for a total of 17 days and refusing to provide any detail of warranty and refusing to fix the engine noise. I rejected it to both finance company and the dealer. both took no notice at all. no responses.

Then a month later the engine failed and they both have implied the car had no faults at time of purchase and the engine failure was a consequence of neglect. is the engine failure even relevant if I rejected it a month earlier. Think Ive been quite rerasonable and acted honestly throughout.

There are so many details that are incorrect. such as the finance company dont even know the correct date I bought it. or they did. I bought it on the 6th October, they say the 17th October. I would have thought the finance company should be working with me not the dealer to cover it up. How wrong I am.
Steveeasy

[des8]

Pty you had to continue using the vehicle afteryou had rejected it.

Have you sent a Letter before Claim yet?
If not do so,as it often concentrates their focus, otherwise this matter will drag on.

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8,
Yes it is. The thing is when I bought the car I was quite happy with it. its just a car for the family to use. it had a porr repair done and went back in. then 2 weeks later the engine was rattling and it lost coolant. I was happy it went back in for repair. after 10 days the dealer told me nothing wrong with it after he fixed the coolant pipe. he could not hear engine rattle. ( i made the mistake to ask him just politly to confirm in writing in his professional opinion the engine was fine and to inform me about the warranty. he refused all requests in writing.

I contacted the finance company and they said I could send it back. I just needed to make a complaint.. I did stating I wished to return/reject the car. never got a response. I sent them images and videos of problems.

The car was still at the dealers. he asked me to take it to another garage for a quote to repair. he would pay for it. I arranged this and when I collected the car he blocked me in. told me he could not care less what I did. He admitted it was his plan to get me to collect my car. he told me he had already been talking to the finance company.

I continued to try and get a response from the finance company. car goes bang. the finance company at last arrange a Ace inspection. only mention the engine failing. inspection states fault not present at time of purchase. the engineer reported items that needed repair that had already been done.

TO clarify.
Garage removed the cat converter first time in. doing this they broke the coolant hose. bodged a repair. it failed. overheated engine. then the car failed 4 weeks later. but the engineer reported the coolant pipe needed replacing. but showed an image of a new pipe. a second report corrected the report but as they had been given random dates by finance company stated the fault was not present at time of inception.

The finace company stated the dealer would not receive copy of misleading report. he did and has used it to justify withdrawing warranty. he then tells AA mediation it was sold with no warranty. then he changed his mind and says he withdrew it. 7 weeks after I asked him to provide written details.

Its a car. Ill not fix it. ill pay rather than default. I believe I have a reasonable claim to reject it. not 100%, and not helped by a inspection that was incorrect. the corrected report states the failed hose could have caused the damage to engine. the dealer claims I drove 600 miles with the oil light on. I was in hospital having a new hip the day it failed. my wife dropped me off returned home and it made a noise and oil light came on she stopped it in a layby.

the dealer has refused to look at it. the finance company nothing at all. Yes ive submitted letter of claim. waiting for reply and expect nothing. Is that a reasonable claim or a pipe dream. not bothered if the dealer fixes it. id have paid a contribution but he has withdrawn warranty and refused to consider any assistance thru mediation. Id sure like to sue him for his breaches of 2015 act.

As always your efforts to help people are much appreciated.
Steveeasy