IN10 endorsment appeal

[SmiPendragon]

Hello I wonder if anyone knows if I could have the conviction overturned? I was driving with learner cover in 2020 and was pulled over and had my car seized. I then passed my test before the court date. The judge offered that if i pleaded guility, he would allowme to recieve just a 3 month ban and no points allowing me to keep my license. I didnt realise I would be so heavily penalised by insurance companies. I almost wish I would have had it revoked, and had a fresh license. The charge was 'no insurance ' & i am thinking it should have been a 'not in accordance'. Does anyone know if its worth appealing? Is there a time frame to appeal? Thanks in advance.

[dslippy]

Very little chance. You do not appear tp fill any requirement fot re-opening a plea, and you are wildly out of time.

I cannot see that insurers would be much better pleased.

[HandyAndy]

There is no such offence as "not in accordance" with insurance. You either have it or you don't.

I'm not sure of the chronology of this. If you committed the offence before you passed your test your licence would not have been revoked. It is the date of the offence which counts, not the date of your conviction. You have to accumulate six or more points after passing your test (with the offence date being used). The points from offences committed before you pass your test count towards the total. So if you have six points when you pass your test, any conviction which carries points which you commit within two years after you passed will see revocation.

You say you wish you had applied for a new licence because of the insurance implications. Your record of driving offences does not vanish when you obtain a new licence. It remains as it is and you must declare any convictions to insurers for whatever period they ask (usually five years).

If you want to appeal against a conviction or sentence handed down in the Magistrates' Court you must lodge an appeal with the Crown Court within 21 days of your conviction, so you are far too late. Just out of interest, on what basis would you appeal (bearing in mind my first sentence)?

[SmiPendragon]

Thank you both for your replies. I was going to appeal as I actualy had a learners policy in place. The points would have gone on my full license, leading to revokation. If I hadnt passed they would have gone on my provisional. Allowing me to pass straight after court. I was thinking the police had charged me with the wrong offence._.

[HandyAndy]

It doesn't really matter because you have been convicted and cannot now appeal. But why were you charged with "No Insurance"? Why did your policy not cover you? What other offence do you believe you should have faced?

You fundamentally misunderstand the licensing process. You don't have a separate "learner" licence. You have one licence. The only dates that matter regarding revocation are:

(1) What was the date of the offence?

(2) What date did you first pass a driving test?

If (1) was before (2) your licence would not have been revoked. If (1) was after (2) it would. Nothing else matters.

I don't understand what you mean by "The points would have gone on my full license, leading to revokation. If I hadnt passed they would have gone on my provisional. Allowing me to pass straight after court. I was thinking the police had charged me with the wrong offence._."

[des8]

I suspect OP was driving unaccompanied by a qualified driver, therefor driving otherwise in accordance with a licence which would mean the insurance held did not cover him/her i.e. driving without insurance.

And insurers regard that as almost worse than a DR10

[HandyAndy]

I suspect OP was driving unaccompanied by a qualified driver, therefor driving otherwise in accordance with a licence which would mean the insurance held did not cover him/her i.e. driving without insurance.

Yes I think you're right. .

And insurers regard that as almost worse than a DR10

But of course any insurers he uses in future will not know the circumstances of the offence but only that he drove without insurance.

I would like him to clarify the two pertinent dates because from his original post I believe he was suffering a misunderstanding about licence revocation (though it's not entirely clear).

[SmiPendragon]

Yes I was unaccompanied. The date of arrest was dec 2020, passed test early 2021, court summer 2021. Thanks for your replies.

[islandgirl]

I think you were lucky! If you had already had a licence and were convicted of no insurance and had just passed your test your licence would have been revoked and you would have to resit the test. The high premiums will follow you for sometime whatever you do.

[HandyAndy]

Yes I was unaccompanied. The date of arrest was dec 2020, passed test early 2021, court summer 2021.

Thanks for the dates. As islandgirl says, had you received six points instead of a ban, your licence would not have been revoked and the "judge" (if it was a District Judge rather than a Magistrate) misled you. It is the date of the offence and the date you passed your test which are important; the date you went to court is irrelevant. Only if you had committed a further offence within two years of passing your test would your licence have been revoked.

[SmiPendragon]

Is the judge allowed to mislead me? Could I sue?

[HandyAndy]

Is the judge allowed to mislead me? Could I sue?

You could try. But since no transcript is taken of Magistrates' Court proceedings, you'd struggle.

[islandgirl]

I say again - you were lucky. You drove without insurance and now are suffering the consequences.