Caught out by red light camera - around 10 seconds after it went red

[nobody24]

Hi everyone,

This morning at around 7am on my way to work, I was stopped at a red light at an intersection. The lights in front of me (which I now understand where a different set of lights) turned green, at which point I proceeded to go. There is a red light camera at this intersection and I can't be sure that I saw a flash, but it must have been a good 10 seconds since the light initially turned red.

I got a gentle honk from a driver turning left onto the same road, and of course then realised my mistake. Thankfully it was early on a Sunday morning, but could have been a lot worse if there were more cars on the road.

Of course this was an honest mistake. The lights in front were green and could easily have been mistaken, as I understand a lot of drivers have been caught out by this particular intersection (and I imagine that's why there's a camera there).

I am a doctor and am worried that due to the time frame in between the lights turning red and me driving, I may be issued a court summon. The law is the law, but a court summon would of course have implications for me. I've been driving for 12 years and never had points or a notice before.

I could really use some advice as my frantic googling since the incident has made me pretty anxious about what's to come! Do I have any leg to stand on by claiming the lights turning green in front of me can be misinterpreted by motorists and this should be made clearer?

Thank you

[HandyAndy]

From your brief description it seems unlikely you have much in the way of a defence.

If the device did capture you, then ten seconds into red is unlikely to see the offer of a course or Fixed Penalty, in which case court action will follow. What implications do you suspect a conviction for a minor traffic offence may have for you?.

[nobody24]

From your brief description it seems unlikely you have much in the way of a defence.

If the device did capture you, then ten seconds into red is unlikely to see the offer of a course or Fixed Penalty, in which case court action will follow. What implications do you suspect a conviction for a minor traffic offence may have for you?.

Thank you for the reply. Am I right in thinking I may not actually be required to attend court, but can provide a written reply?

I'm obliged to tell my defence union and employer, and although the actual conviction itself shouldn't have disastrous consequences it does put a black mark in our books, however small.

May seem a silly question, but do these cameras sometimes miss offences? Will hold on and hope for the best.

[HandyAndy]

Am I right in thinking I may not actually be required to attend court, but can provide a written reply?

Yes you are right. If the matter does go to court, unless you request a court hearing which you can attend, it will be handled under the "Single Justice" procedure. This involves a single Magistrate, sitting alone but assisted by a legal advisor, dealing with matters "on papers" only. It takes place in an office and nobody else can attend. You will be able to submit your plea and any mitigation you'd like the SJ to take into account, in writing.

May seem a silly question, but do these cameras sometimes miss offences? Will hold on and hope for the best.

I imagine they might. If you are the Registered Keeper you must be served with a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" (a "NIP") within 14 days of the alleged offence. Along with that will be a "Request for Driver's Details) to which you must respond within 28 days. The guideline sentence which the court is likely to impose is a fine of half a week's net income (reduced by a third for a guilty plea) and three points. You will also pay a "Victim Surcharge" of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and £85 costs.

[nobody24]

Yes you are right. If the matter does go to court, unless you request a court hearing which you can attend, it will be handled under the "Single Justice" procedure. This involves a single Magistrate, sitting alone but assisted by a legal advisor, dealing with matters "on papers" only. It takes place in an office and nobody else can attend. You will be able to submit your plea and any mitigation you'd like the SJ to take into account, in writing.



I imagine they might. If you are the Registered Keeper you must be served with a "Notice of Intended Prosecution" (a "NIP") within 14 days of the alleged offence. Along with that will be a "Request for Driver's Details) to which you must respond within 28 days. The guideline sentence which the court is likely to impose is a fine of half a week's net income (reduced by a third for a guilty plea) and three points. You will also pay a "Victim Surcharge" of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and £85 costs.

Thank you, this is really helpful.

Would you by any chance know what the time threshold is for a penalty vs court?

[HandyAndy]

I'm afraid I don't. It doesn't seem to be widely published as speed limit thresholds are. I seem to recall that a red light camera will only operate about one second after red but I doubt a FP would be offered for ten seconds into red. The trouble is that the camera is a blunt instrument and it does not discriminate between a driver who has deliberately crossed a red light (without stopping) ten seconds after red and one, like you, who had stopped but mistakenly then pulled away.

When you respond to your request for driver's details you could try attaching a letter explaining the circumstances, and appealing to their better nature (!) suggesting you may benefit from an educational course. The problem is that these offences are dealt with very much in a "sausage machine" fashion and the ticket office staff do not usually use discretion. If their book of instructions says "court action if above (say) five seconds" they will not depart from that.