91 Letters of Notice of Enforcement for old car

[tmj9815]

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I'm in quite a panic as is the wife hence spending the day Googling my predicament and finding this forum. Last June 2018, I sold my car to a car dealer who came to my house to purchase it. The sale took place outside my house. I have a handwritten bill of sale which is signed, dated with the address of the dealer clearly written, a copy of the signed and dated V5 DVLA slip (sent to the DVLA a few months later), and a certificate of cancellation of my car insurance for this car. All these documents state a date on or before the sale of the car in June 2018. The sale was also witnessed by my partner and my neighbour. The dealer (who had dealer plates) stated that I just needed to hold on to the V5 as he was a dealer and he would change ownership with the DVLA by sending in the other part of the V5 (yes, I know, I shouldn't have listened to him, so the V5 slip I had, it didn't get sent in for a few months, lesson learnt).

Since the sale, the car has been used over 90 times by the current owner to cross a toll bridge without paying for the last nine months starting in July 2018, a month after I sold my car. Letters from the toll company were sent out to my OLD address as I have since moved. When they got no reply, the toll firm passed the debt to a debt recovery firm who did some 'detective work', and found my new address, and this week more then 90 letters of Notice of Enforcement dropped through my letter box!!

I immediately rang the debt recovery firm. I spoke to two ladies, both stated I need to produce three pieces of evidence - the receipt for the V5 from the DVLA (I can't find it in the house), so have requested a V888 from the DVLA), certificate of cancellation of car insurance and bill of sale, both of which I have. I was also further told that they have a strict policy, and that unless I produce this evidence, I am liable for £22,000's worth of unpaid toll and debt recovery fees which are going up everyday. I was also encouraged to pay over the phone, £150 payment 'to start the ball rolling'. When I (mildly) protested that I wasn't driving the car, I have no idea who owns the car, I was told that it doesn't matter, my name is the registered owner, so I have no choice other then pay the fines otherwise they'd start court action. I declined to pay.

I have rang the DVLA twice (in a panic) asking for the date the ownership changed on my old car, and was told yesterday that they couldn't release over the phone the information I required, that I had to request a form V888 from them (which I have done today), but I was assured by one of the call staff that I was NOT the current registered owner of the vehicle and haven't been since last summer. He believes that the debt recovery firm may be using old information for addresses hence the confusion.

Can anyone advise on my situation? As far as I'm concerned, I sold the car in June 2018 which was witnessed by two people so ceased on that day to own it. I have a signed bill of sale, cancellation letter for my car insurance and a copy of the signed and dated V5 in my possession. The sale was also witnessed by two people. Am I liable at the end of the day to pay for someone else? And the fact I never knew my old car was using a toll bridge, which if I did, I would have responded instantly to a demand for toll payment. Instead I get a batch of 90 letters of Notice for Enforcement this week, no chance appeal via the toll company just straight to enforcement albeit because the initial letters went to my old address! Any advice or experience of this would help as I'm literally losing all my hair worrying! Thank you.

[ploddertom]

I have asked someone who knows about this to have a look.

[tmj9815]

Thank you Ploddertom. For the sake of my sanity (and the nagging I'm getting off the other half), thank you!

[des8]

AFAIK the toll company can only recover charges from the driver of the vehicle.
There is no transfer of liability to the registered owner.
So tell the debt recovery firm to chase the current owner.

Incidentally which toll bridge and which DCA?
Can you post up (suitably redacted) the correspondence so far received

[tmj9815]

Thank you for the reply Des8. The toll operator is Merseyflow and the Marston Holdings is now the 'owner' of the debts. Each time the new owner of my old car has used the toll bridge, he or she should have paid the toll by midnight that night. They haven't, hence Merseyflow issued a penalty charge which required payment within 14 days, then another letter was issued and incurred another fine of £20, then another at 28 days and lastly 42 days, quote "The penalty is registered as a civil debt. Recovery action will begin and enforcement agents may be instructed. The Penalty Charge Notice will be issued to the address of the registered keeper or the person identified as being responsible for that vehicle at the time the crossing was made."

As the car has tripped the toll camera 90 plus times since July last year, and that the Merseyflow correspondence was being sent to me and not the new owner (don't know why), coupled with the fact the correspondence was being sent to my old address (I have since moved), I had no idea this was happening. Marston has taken over now to recover the debt, and in their words, did some detective work and found my new address (wouldn't tell me how they did it). They then sent me 90 plus individual letters in one go this week, all stating 'notice of enforcement' for the recovery of the debts from each occurrence.

I have requested from DVLA a V888 which will show when I ceased to be the registered keeper of the vehicle, but I do have paper evidence with a bill of sale (dated, signed and with buyers address), a photocopy of the signed and dated V5, certificate of cancellation of car insurance as well as two witnesses who were present when I sold my car. All this evidence shows that the car was sold in June and the toll occurrences started in July.

I wouldn't have been so concerned if it isn't for the fact the total debt so far is around £21k. In fact, its making me feel physically sick as one of the phone operators at Marston spoke about selling of assets including house and car to recover the debt. No matter what I said on the phone about it not being my car, I got told 'its your car, you're the registered owner, if I drove my dads car and did this then he'd be liable to pay the debt' to which I replied 'ridiculous'! and she replied 'its the law'.

I have until the 20th of this month to provide evidence. Going off the various review websites regarding this debt agency, I'm worried.

[ploddertom]

Please remember that the debt recovery company are Bailiffs so have greater powers - but this does not give them the power of forced entry unless you have previously allowed them entry - a seriously bad idea. The Registered Keeper at the time the offence was "committed" becomes liable to pay the outstanding charge(s).

[des8]

So Penalty Charge Notices are issued by Merseyflow on behalf of Halton Borough Council
As they weren't paid within the 14 days the council have applied to the Traffic Enforcement Centre to register the amounts as a debt. and they have now been passed to Marstons for enforcement.

This isn't the straightforward private toll company I imagined on first reading.
Liability for Penalty Charge Notices can be transferred to the registered keeper.

I would suggest you contact the Pepipoo forum for assistance on this one (http://www.pepipoo.com/)
In the meantime have a read here: https://www.merseyflow.co.uk/penalties and here: https://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.g...-merseyflow/#/

[tmj9815]

Thank you both for your replies. I will logon to the other website and ask this question. Thanks again.