LEGALBEAGAL - Voluntary termination help

[R0b]

So that's the letter before action, presumably by Dentons?

I notice they have said that you are in breach of the terms of the agreement but have not stated how or why you have breached the agreement. Can you confirm whether you have been sent a default notice letter prior to the collection team saying it had been terminated? Or did they just tell you that the agreement was now terminated?

Based on what you've mentioned in this thread, I cannot see how they can claim that the agreement was terminated by them, unless you aren't telling us something that likely changes the landscape.

As far as I can see, there are at least 2 lines of defence which I have already mentioned: (1) RCI are in repudiatory breach for refusing the notice of termination and (2) even if the repudiatory breach argument fails, you terminated the agreement in accordance with S.99 which only requires notice in writing. There is nothing in that provision that suggests it is subject to any further conditions, either to sign their documentation or that it has to be signed and in writing (unlike other legislation such as the s.136 of the Law of Property Act 1925).

So the question for you then is whether you cave in and give up to their demands, or you are prepared to defend yourself. It would also be prudent to say that given the sums that they are seeking from you, I would suggest you also look at getting some independent legal advice or if you have any legal expenses insurance you may also want to look at claiming on that.

If you want to go it alone, then your next step would be to respond to that letter preferably sooner than later but in the first instance you might want to look at the two above options.

I can help as much as I can but ultimately it is your case and situation so only you can decide what route you wish to take.

In the meantime, I would also suggest you fire off a subject access request immediately to RCI. If you can remember, you should specifically ask for call recordings too of any recent calls you have made to them and set out the dates and times in your letter. There's an example GDPR request letter you can find by clicking here. To avoid any delays you should send a copy of your driving licence and utility bill enclosed with the letter or email.

RCI's privacy policy on its website is out of date but I did find an email here that you could send your request to: renaultfinance-customerservices@rcibanque.com

Make sure to put in the subject line something appropriate such as Subject Access Request.

[Amethyst]

Documents

( yes they were massive, so check your pic size settings on your phone, or do screenshots of the photo after taking it )

On the agreement, yes the £1000 deposit is accounted for xxx ( the 47 monthly payments plus bigger 1st payment plus deposit add up to nigh on £10,000 then theres the £5k odd final payment ) the £7881 50% is correct and your £1k deposit is included in the calc so it's £6881 of installment payments needed to hit the 50%.

[R0b]

Is that all they have sent with the letter before action, just the HP agreement?

[Legalbeagal]

Yes it is from demons, I also noticed that they didn't give a reason as to how I have breached the agreement. I haven't recived a default notice and they just told me in an email that it has now been terminated.

I'm not going to cave in to them, I will fight this as I don't see that I am in the wrong. I have done my part and it's them that are dragging their feet and not complying with what I have requested.

I think I will go with your first suggest and see how that plays out and if they are not accepting that then I will move on to the second suggestion. I do really appreciate all the advice you have given me so far and I will look into getting legal advice my self.

Can I ask about the subject access request, and giving them my driving licence number and utility bill. I'm not sure why I have to send this.

Thank you

[Legalbeagal]

*Denton a not demons

[Legalbeagal]

I do have more what they sent, a detail of the sums which I have paid. I can send them to be posted if you would like to take a look.

The first 2 pages are from the solicitors and the rest is the agreement tgat I signed as well as the list of sums I have paid

[Legalbeagal]

Documents

( yes they were massive, so check your pic size settings on your phone, or do screenshots of the photo after taking it )

On the agreement, yes the £1000 deposit is accounted for xxx ( the 47 monthly payments plus bigger 1st payment plus deposit add up to nigh on £10,000 then theres the £5k odd final payment ) the £7881 50% is correct and your £1k deposit is included in the calc so it's £6881 of installment payments needed to hit the 50%.

Thank you for posting this for me. I have paid £8,920.02 with £6,656.70 remaining left to pay

[Legalbeagal]

I've found another letter from them and it does sat that it is a default notice. I'm sorry I didn't realise it said this on the top

[Amethyst]

Default notice and transactions

[R0b]

Well I have to say that based on what has been supplied, RCI don't seem to have any leg to stand on - a right royal cock up I would say.

I'm not entirely sure if this is simply a hollow threat but if they do issue legal proceedings, then you may certainly want to consider bringing a counterclaim against RCI for repudiatory breach. The damages sought would probably have to be the amount equalling the option to purchase price or the transfer of ownership of the car from RCI to you. That would be the effect if the contract had run its full course and you would have benefited from it. It would mean you'd need to pay a fee to bring a counterclaim but that's a cost you need to weigh up.

If you are going to respond to Dentons then I would suggest take the next few days or so to think about what you want to say. There's no need to rush as you have 30 days from the date of the letter to reply. thinking right off the bat you may want to consider asking for the following information:

a. Make it clear you are denying liability

b. Detailed description of the breach of agreement alleged.

c. You've received the HP agreement but you should also ask for any further evidence that they are seeking to rely on or if it is simply the HP agreement.

d. Set out a sub-heading in the letter identified as "Counterclaim". You can then explain your position and if they intend on issuing legal proceedings, that's what you expect to happen, or they can come to the table and agree a settlement without the need to incur further costs.

e. Reserve your position as to any other causes of action you may have against RCI as a result of this.

I have an example template response where further information is needed (click here) but in your case it probably needs to be tweaked because it is rather generic and would need to reflect your current position. It's a starting point anyway, but I would suggest that perhaps you post up a draft version on here before sending it off so one of us can take a look and see if you are along the right lines. If I have time this week, I'll try and post an example of what you might want to say but again you have all the knowledge and information so you'd need to double check its accurate and correct.

Can I ask about the subject access request, and giving them my driving licence number and utility bill. I'm not sure why I have to send this.

Under the GDPR data controllers have a duty to verify you and make sure you it is you they are speaking to. If you don't send any form of identification, it's most likely that they will respond to you (possibly a week or more down the line) and tell you that you need to provide a form of identification. You've then wasted time and delayed your request. So the purpose of sending it upfront is to anticipate what they are likely to ask.

[Amethyst]

bump so you can find it

[Legalbeagal]

Hi just an update, not really much to post but I have sent them the reply form back saying I'm not going to pay any money to them I have asked for them to provide an email laddress so I can forward them the emails smet between my slef and rci finance I sent this on the 1st of this month so today it has been 4 weeks today. Do I just sit and wait for them to reply back or how long do I give them to reply before me calling them or sending a letter, I'm not really sure what to do now other than wait.

I did write a letter to go with the reply form which was on my other phone that I can't recover so i think I'll hand write it from the template and send it to them, does this seem like the right thing to do?

Also in the letter they sent to me they state that the contract is terminated, so if they have ended the agreement then isn't there nothing left to claim from me

I have read up on this online and it seems to be that if the contract agreement has been terminated or eneded then I have no legal obligation to them and that the ownership of the car lies with the registered owner, which is me? I'm not sure how true this is but it is a wonder, that if the agreement has been terminated then they have nothing to stand on the agreement has ended and therefore there is no agreement to refer to as to what they say I owe them

[R0b]

Thanks for the update.

Dentons should already have the correspondence between you and RCI, or they should (as responsible lawyers) ask RCI to provide the correspondence you refer to.

Given that it has been 4 weeks, it would be sensible to contact Dentons again and remind them that you asked for an email address to provide copies of the correspondence but they have not got back to you, and you would appreciate a response from them. Worth pointing out it's been 4 weeks since you sent the request so that they can't deny being aware.

Do you still have the car? Have they asked for it back?

If you haven't written the letter to go with your reply, did you just send the reply form back? I'm a little confused as there seems to be something missing from your post.

Rights and liabilities under a contract depends on who terminates the agreement. If RCI terminated first, your liability will be much more than if you terminated under the voluntary termination process.

[Legalbeagal]

Here is the letter I'm sending them today which I wanted to send via email Sorry if its quite a long read. It includes all the emails sent between my self and rci


Co:



Trader’s Name

Trader’s Address Line 1

Trader’s Address Line 2

Trader’s Address Line 3

Postcode


Shaunnagreen@hotmail.co.uk



27/04/19


Dear Andrew


Rci finance v shaunna Green


I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter before action dated 01/02/19 and setting out your client’s allegations made in connection with the Nissan qashqi and more specifically, your client’s suggestion that I am liable for the payment of the car. In accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (the “Protocol”), I have enclosed the completed Reply Form.


You will note from the enclosed Reply Form that I deny any liability in relation to your client’s allegations. My reasons are as follows:


• I requested to voluntary terminate the Nissan qashqi on the 14/11/18. Plenty of time to give notice which I know I am within my rights to do so before the agreement would end.


Here I have the transcripts between my self and rci dating from the 14/11/18


This reply was sent after I sent the voluntary termination email


15/11/19


In order to hand the car back early or Voluntary terminate as per your signed agreement you need to have paid half the financial liability which you have done but you will need to call the Voluntary Termination of agreement team on 0330 331 0228 to do this.
Kind Regards
Rukmini Webster


My reply 15/11/19


Hello,
Please can you confirm what happens once I call them and the next steps would be.
Thank you
Shaunna green



Rci reply 15/11/19

I wouldn’t be able to advise on this as I do not know their process.
Kind Regards
Rukmini Webster


My reply 15/11/19

Can you send me their email address please so I can email them.
Thanks
Shaunna green


Rci reply 15/11/19


To Voluntary terminate you will need to call them as they will not process your voluntary termination request.
Kind Regards
Rukmini Webster


My reply 4/12/18

I did send them the Voluntary Termination letter again


Rci reply 6/13/18


Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately your voluntary termination has been sent to us too late as our vehicle recovery team have already been instructed to collect. Please await communication from them.
Kind regards
Maisey


My reply 6/12/18



I did email over a month ago and heard nothing. The car is ready and waiting to be collected once the black box from the car insurance have removed it.

Please can you let me know what will happen now as I did request for the car to be returned and put in a voluntary termination on the 14/11/18. I have email of this being sent.



My reply 6/12/18


Hello This is the email I sent on the 15/11/18.

Please find attached the written letter to confirm voluntary termination of contract.
The car is ready to collect please contact me to arrange a collection. I will notify you of the time and date it will be dropped, once the car is left it will no longer be my responsibility and you will have no need to contact for anything further.

The car will have all the paperwork inside the car along with 2 keys or I will leave on the nearest Nissan dealership parked ready for you to take.


Rci reply 6/12/18


Thank you very much for sending us your voluntary termination form again. Unfortunately we are unable to accept this as we require the form to be hand signed. Please can you hand sign this letter and send it to us again for us to action for you.
Kind Regards,
Sarah


My reply 6/12/18

I have contacted citizen advice about the signature and I do not need to sign anything as long as I have given you the letter which I have.


Rci reply 6/12/18


We do not have a copy of the email sent on the 14/11/2018. On the 15th we have a reply that explains you will need to contact the end of agreement team to start the Voluntary Termination process. Since, we have not heard from you.
Our vehicle recovery team will be in touch with you soon.
Kind regards
Maisey


My reply 6/12/18


I can send you the email I sent on the 14/11/18. I have been instructed that to terminate it needs to be done In writing as I did and not call to terminate. So you had a written copy of me terminating the contract. Do you know how long that will be as I will only be corresponding via email


Rci reply 7/12/18


Thank you for your email.

This Agreement is now with our Vehicle Recovery Team, I have copied them into this email.
Kind regards
Julie Soydan


My reply

Rci reply 9/12/18

Thank you for your e-mail.

We would need a hand signed form from you to confirm it is you that would like to Voluntary Terminate.
If you do not want to sign our paperwork you can send over a letter drafted by you to confirm the Voluntary Termination.
Many Thanks
Louise



My reply 9/12/18

I do not need to sign anything to say I’m voluntary terminating the agreement. I have given you notice and that’s all I need to do on my behalf. Please can you let me know when you can collect the vehicle as it is waiting to be collected.


Rci reply 10/12/18

Unfortunately, we would require the Voluntary termination slip to be signed in order to terminate your agreement. This is due to this being a change to your contract. If you do not wish to sign our slip, please email a hand signed letter requesting that we terminate your agreement. You would still be liable for any excess mileage or damage charges if you email in your own letter.
As long as your hand signed signature matches our agreement documents, we will be able to accept this.
Kindest Regards,


My reply 10/12/18

Once again I will say I do not need to sign anything. I have given you the notice of voluntary termination and I will not be liable for excess mileage or damage charges either. I understand that I have the right to do this at any time before the final payment is due, under s.99(1) of the consumer credit act. I also understand that my liability following termination will be calculated in accordance with s.100 of that acts.

I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act.


Rci reply 10/12/18

Thank you for your email to our Voluntary Termination team.
Unfortunately your Agreement has now been terminated. The job has now been passed to Crystal collection.
Their contact number is 01277202010. You will need to call them to arrange collection of the vehicle.
Kind regards,
Zain


My reply 10/12/18

Can you explain what term you mean by terminated please and not voluntary termination what I have provided in previous emails.

My reply again 10/12/18

Hello, please can you confirm that you have accepted the voluntary termination. I sent the first email on the 15/11/18 then heard nothing back. Now you are saying it’s being recovered? Where is the letter or email to state this. I gave notice to voluntary terminate on the 15/11/18 and haven’t been given anything to say to are now in the recovery process other than an email to say that my account has been passed to the recovery team. No explanation or formal letter to say this was happening and you only told me this after me giving you notice for the second time.

You have 14 days from this email to collect the car as stated in my other email, the car no longer has insurance or car tax and the mot is due to run out on the 11/12/18. Failure to collect within the time I have given, 14 days I will put a £30 per day charge in place until the car is collected. I am within my rights to do this as it will be storage fees for the car still being in my possession.

Please send me via email your confirmation of voluntary termination as I gave you notice nearly a month ago. Once I have confirmation of the voluntary termination then I will give the address that the car can be collected from.

Rci reply 11/12/18

Thank you for your email below, I can see an email was sent to you on the 15th November 2018 to get in contact with the Voluntary Termination team.
Unfortunately your Agreement was terminated as we never received any correspondence from yourself.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us on - 0333 2000 002, we are open Monday - Friday 8.30am - 6pm.
Kind Regards,
Zain

My reply 11/12/18

I did email to give you notice and it was on the 15/11/18. If the contract is terminated like you say please break down what that means and entails as I wish to voluntary terminate and I am within my rights to do this. Once it is served to you via mail or email then that is all I need to do on my behalf. No need for me to call and terminate as you need it in writing which I did send it on the 15/11/18 and I know you had received it as you replied to the email I sent to you. So in my behalf I have fulfilled my part and given notice. You can’t say now that you have terminated the contract, once I have handed you the voluntary termination letter. It was served to you before you declared to me you have terminated the contract. As written in my other emails.

You now have 13 days to arrange collection and after these 13 days I will impose a £30 per day holding fee for storage of the car.

I will give out the details of the collection address once I have received confirmation that the contract was voluntary terminated as I requested.

My reply 11/12/18

Please find attached screen shots of emails I have exchanged and they state that I need to sign paperwork for the voluntary termination to go through. I know my rights and I know that I do not need to sign any paperwork. I just need to give you notice which I did on the 14/11/18 or the 15/11/18.

Please can you explain to me how and when you declared that you have terminated the contract? If you have agreed to accept the voluntary termination once I have given you my signature. You cannot declare that you have cancelled the contract. I suggest you look up the act I have given you and understand that once I have given you notice I do not need to sign any paper work and that you cannot after me giving this notice, say to me that now you have cancelled the agreement when you have acknowledge that you will accept voluntary termination once I sign paperwork, which again I know my rights and I do not need to sign any paperwork

rci reply 11/12/18

Thank you for your email below.
We have taken a look at the screenshots you have sent and can see the advisors have all stated we require a letter with your signature confirming you would like to voluntary terminate.

We have received a letter from yourself however this is dated after the termination. The voluntary termination is now null and void.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us on - 0333 2000 002, we are open Monday - Friday 8.30am - 6pm.
Kind Regards,
Zain

My reply 11/12/18

How is it null? In the emails sent to me you asked for my signature which I am within my rights to not sign the agreement. I have gotten legal advice and they have notified me that I do not need to sign anything to given you notice of voluntary termination.

You have basically said you will accept the voluntary termination on the request on my signature, I know that you will use tactical words to try to get me to sign paperwork that I do not need to sign. I also know that by you doing this to enforce me to sign when I know I do not need to that I am within my rights to put forward a complaint which I will be doing so as you are not allowed to enforce me to sign any paperwork. I suggest once again you look up the consumer credit act 1974 read through what my rights are and understand what I understand.

I gave you my notice of voluntary termination on the 14/11/18 stating you had 14 days to address my voluntary termination letter and correspond to my self with confirmation that it has been voluntary terminated. The charges for the car to be stored will go up once the 13 days have passed and will increase to £150 which the storage facility has in place failure to collect after 14 days.

Once you have read through the consumer credit act you will have a better understanding of the voluntary termination I have given you and with the reply in emails you have given me, you have acknowledged my voluntary termination letter and in return are asking for my signature which I do not have to give to you. That is my legal right. Again please look this up and you will find that I am correct and that no paperwork needs to be signed to give you notice.

Explain how the voluntary termination is void? I have served it to you and you canning make it void, you do not have the power to do so. Please show me evidence that you can void it and null it. And please me proof that I have to sign paperwork for you to allow voluntary termination.

As stated before you will find evidence that I am within my rights to serve you voluntary termination, upon me serving you this, you cannot then claim to cancel my contract after I have sent you the letter to terminate first.

Rci reply 12/12/18

Thank you for your email.
Unfortunately, as you will be aware, we have served a termination notice due to non-payment, which is why details of the case have been passed on to our recovery agents.

As you will also be aware, although we received an e-mail from you on 15th November regarding your intentions to exercise your right to voluntarily terminate the Agreement- in line with Section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act- you were asked to contact our Voluntary Termination team so that you could be given all of the information required in order to start the process. We heard nothing further in relation to this matter and, at time of writing, we are still yet to receive hand-signed confirmation of your intention to voluntarily terminate. We are unable to accept e-signature to commence this process.

With regard to the return of the vehicle at this stage; because you have paid over a third of the total amount payable under the terms of the Agreement, our agents are unable to collect the vehicle without your hand-signed consent [a voluntary surrender form]. If you're unable to agree to sign this form, our agents will close the case, notify us and we will then refer the matter to our Solicitors in order to initiate legal proceedings. This may result in additional charges being added to the outstanding balance at a later stage.

For the purposes of clarity, please note that we do not- nor have we- agreed to reimburse you for any 'storage costs' which you claim are due from us prior to the return of our vehicle.

In spite of the above, we do remain committed to trying to resolve this matter amicably and we are keen to ensure that you have all of the information required to make an informed choice regarding this matter. Please don't hesitate to contact us- by return or by telephone on 0333 2000 002- if you wish to discuss this matter further. You may also wish to seek independent advice regarding your rights, if you have not already done so.
We look forward to hearing from you.
Kind Regards,
Zain

My reply 12/12/18

In emails that were sent to me you ask for my signature to accept the voluntary termination. I do not need to sign any papers and I have in fact paid more than 50% outstanding is around £6000. The total cost of the car was £14000 so I have indeed paid over 50% so I am within my rights to hand you notice of voluntary termination. You are only claiming to not say that after I gave you this notice that you are now terminating the contract.

I have no worries with you contacting your solicitors as I have seeked legal advice my self and have been advised not to sign any paperwork and it is my right to not sign any paper work.

I didn’t say you have agreed to pay the cost of the storage fees. I’m simply letting you know after now 12 days there will be a cost of storage fees that will be accumulating to store the car as I have gave you notice to voluntary terminate.

I did email your self to serve you the notice so I have sown my part to give notice and it can be done by email which I have done.

Rci reply 20/12/18

Thank you for your email below. We apologies for the delay in response.

We require a signed slip or document from yourself to confirm you wish to return the vehicle. The reason for this is when uplifting the vehicle from the yourself, you have given us authority to do this.

Therefore the signature ensures as this request has come from you and protects the business to ensure at a later date should there be any issues.

If you have any further question or queries please contact Dentons after the new year on 03302220050. Your Agreement has now been passed to our solicitors.
Kind Regards,
Zain


I didn't reply after this email and then I received a letter from your self about this matter.


As you can see from above its very misleading and they clearly don't know what's the law on voluntary terminating, I'm no expert but I do know my legal rights.


If you look at the paperwork sent by your self. My agreement clearly states that if I have paid 50%of the total amount which I have, it is nearly £9,000 then I am within my rights to give voluntary termination via email. I have done my part and I'm not entirely clear on what they are claiming I have done?


Without prejudice to the above denial, you have supplied me with no documentation or information relating to your client’s claim. I therefore require further information from your client (as per below) and with such, I am not in a position to provide a full response to the allegations made against me within the time limits set out in the Protocol.


The following information is required:


• What grounds are they claiming I have committed any wrong doing?



Until your client has complied with my request for further information, I would therefore suggest that any action your client is considering be deferred. Upon receipt of the said information, I anticipate that a full response will be provided within 30 days (I refer you to the Protocol under the heading What happens if I fill in and return the Reply Form in time? at page 9 which explicitly states creditors should allow a further 30 days before commencing legal proceedings). Please therefore confirm that your client will not to take any further action until it has provided the necessary information and/or documentation and until you are in receipt of my full response.


If, however, your client pursues its claim notwithstanding its failure to supply the further information as requested, I reserve the right to draw this letter to the attention of the court and seek an adverse costs order as a result of non-compliance with the Protocol as well as any other order the court deems appropriate.


<Finally, I would like to add that pursuant to paragraph 3.3 of the Protocol, I request that all future correspondence be sent to the following email address: insert email address. If this position should change, I will let you know.>


I look forward to hearing from you.


Yours faithfully,


Enc. Reply Form


There are some parts that I have left from the original template as I'm not sure what I should put Any suggestions please, thanks

[Legalbeagal]

I do still have the and I havent heard anything from rci asking for the car back Just the solicitors letter from dentons