Help with Sales of Goods act

[david1980]

Hello Everyone,

Cutting an incredibly long story short (ish)
I Purchased a Skoda Fabia brand new from a Skoda dealer in 2012, in 2017 at 4 and a half years old the timing chain snapped causing catastrophic damage to the engine and a repair bill of £4500.
After speaking with Skoda and the dealer they reduced the bill to £2900, still far more than I could afford and nearly the then price of the car in working order.
I started some research and found that their was a fault with the chains, owing to the life cycle of a piece of machinery being extended beyond its recommended, this means that the chains made in the later part of its life cycle are prone to stretching and breakage.
This was never a recall but information (TPI's) were sent to all garages and a revised part was made in case there was any issues, this part was not adequate nor its 3rd revision, and the entire chain is now reverted to a belt in the new engines.
Cars all over Europe were fixed free of charge or for a labour only fee, this was also highlighted in the guardians (consumer champions)

The car has a full service history with the retailer, the parts in question are non service items

Armed with this knowledge I approached the customer service team who's continual stance was that it was out of warranty and the goodwill shown was all they would do.

I then took this in June 2017 to the Motoring Ombudsman. Their staff liaised on my behalf however communications were few and far between, my first two case handlers left the company, I was then given a new handler in Jan 2018 who has been far better in regards to coms.

I have had an independent review done by Dekra, which states that the chain has snapped.

The issue the ombudsman keep coming back to is why did it snap?

The report has stated there are a number of reasons it could have snapped, which is what the ombudsman keeps coming back to, the fact that the chain was fundamentally faulty from new does not seem to be something they will consider, and that I must prove this.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Kati]

tagging des8 xx

[david1980]

Hello Everyone,

Cutting an incredibly long story short (ish)
I Purchased a Skoda Fabia brand new from a Skoda dealer in 2012, in 2017 at 4 and a half years old the timing chain snapped causing catastrophic damage to the engine and a repair bill of £4500.
After speaking with Skoda and the dealer they reduced the bill to £2900, still far more than I could afford and nearly the then price of the car in working order.
I started some research and found that their was a fault with the chains, owing to the life cycle of a piece of machinery being extended beyond its recommended, this means that the chains made in the later part of its life cycle are prone to stretching and breakage.
This was never a recall but information (TPI's) were sent to all garages and a revised part was made in case there was any issues, this part was not adequate nor its 3rd revision, and the entire chain is now reverted to a belt in the new engines.
Cars all over Europe were fixed free of charge or for a labour only fee, this was also highlighted in the guardians (consumer champions)

The car has a full service history with the retailer, the parts in question are non service items

Armed with this knowledge I approached the customer service team who's continual stance was that it was out of warranty and the goodwill shown was all they would do.

I then took this in June 2017 to the Motoring Ombudsman. Their staff liaised on my behalf however communications were few and far between, my first two case handlers left the company, I was then given a new handler in Jan 2018 who has been far better in regards to coms.

I have had an independent review done by Dekra, which states that the chain has snapped.

The issue the ombudsman keep coming back to is why did it snap?

The report has stated there are a number of reasons it could have snapped, which is what the ombudsman keeps coming back to, the fact that the chain was fundamentally faulty from new does not seem to be something they will consider, and that I must prove this.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Small update,

Skoda have just called, as I had drafted a letter to their head office, they have stated that they understand my concerns but stand by their decision.
they also claim the reports are not true and that all cases must be dealt with on an individual basis.
I had also stated that It had gone on so long which was causing great stress due to being a carer for my terminally ill mother, but that this has gone through their process and that was the end of the matter

[des8]

Hi David,
Very frustrating.
A timing chain should last the life of the car. (I run two classics one 1951, the other 1971 and they have their original chains!)

As the dealer and Skoda are declining to assist further you could consider initiating court action.
Regarding costs, these would be minimal with a claim for £4500:
£180 online filing fee
£335 hearing fee (if the case goes that far)
If you are on a low income you might be entitled to fee exemption ( https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-tribunal-fees)
If you win the other side will have to reimburse your fees.
If you lose, as it will be allocated to the small claims track, you will not have to pay the other sides costs, unless you have acted unreasonably.

You would need to claim on the basis the goods were unsatisfactory as required by the Sale of Goods Act 1979

Who you sue depends on how you purchased the goods.
If you used Hire Purchase the Finance House is responsible, and the relevant act is the Supply of Goods Implied Terms Act 1973

Your case would depend on the balance of probabilities.
Whilst you have to prove the goods were unsatisfactory, you could argue that the very fact of the failure of the chain in a vehicle which has been maintained according to manufacturers schedule is proof enough.

However as the party being sued would doubtlessly employ solicitors and possibly even barristers whose costs they would not be able to recovery, they might well agree at mediation stage to up their offers.

Tagging R0b

[R0b]

Hi there,

I'm not a car expert but as Des has already said, I would expect a timing chain to last for the life of the vehicle or at least a significant part of its life expectancy i.e. at least 100k miles. Of course it is very easy to be narrow minded in these types of disputes particularly if you have to fork out a substantial amount of money of your own to repair it, so I would suggest try to be as objective as you can in weighing up whether or not you have a reasonable prospect of being successful in a claim. For example:

1. Are you able to contact the person who created the report and see if they can put their own conclusion as to why the timing chain might have snapped? Although I find the Motor Ombudsman a bit crap in these scenarios, they do have a point if the report doesn't indicate how or why it has snapped.

2. As part of the servicing requirements, were they checking the status of the timing chain? I remember reading not too long ago in an article about a certain BMW model where the timing chain (an allegedly defective product) was housed within the engine compartment that was practically impossible to get to without stripping everything out. Although BMW denied any wrongdoing it was suggested that because of the position of the timing chain in the engine bay, it was arguable that BMW did not think it ever needed changing and therefore did not require any service inspections. Applying the same principle to your own case, is the timing chain in an awkward position within the engine bay, or perhaps the timing chain wasn't part of the servicing and if so, there could be an inference that because there was no requirement to inspect the timing chain at service intervals, it is reasonable to suggest that it would last the lifetime of the vehicle.

3. Following on from point number 2, I think a key question for the court will be, what is the source of this information suggesting the timing chain was not adequate enough or was likely to cause problems earlier than you might expect? If it is not something directly from Skoda themselves and it came through third parties, a court is likely to attach less weight to it but nonetheless some weight might be given to it.

4. Whilst you have mentioned the length of time you have had the Skoda, you've not mentioned how many miles it has actually done. This is something that could be crucial when a judge considers if the timing is in fact defective. I would think a judge is more likely to find in favour of you if your mileage over 4 years is only 25,000 whereas if its something like 87,000 then his decision might be more difficult. Also be aware that Skoda would likely argue you have had quite a number of years' use out of it too so there may be some contribution on your part and/or negligence (but I do note your regular servicing which you could certainly point out to them).

Ultimately, based on what you have said, I wouldn't say there is 'concrete' evidence to support your claim but do remember you only have to tip the scales and persuade the judge 51% in your favour as civil cases are based on a balance of probabilities i.e. is it more likely than not, the timing chain is defective. The onus is on the claimant to prove their claim and so this is usually done by way of evidence, though when a court has to make a finding of fact due to little or no evidence, there might be a greater risk of losing your case.

In addition to what Des has suggested about the goods were not of satisfactory quality, I would be inclined to add that they were not fit for purpose either, particularly if Skoda were fully aware of a timing chain issue. I also agreed that they would probably look to instruct solicitors to defend this but for an issue like this I would imagine that the costs of defending this could quite easily match or exceed the costs of what you are claiming, though it depends on whether they have in-house solicitors who might do much of the work and then instruct a junior barrister which for a day's hearing could be between £500 to £1,000 give or take. Otherwise if they have to instruct external solicitors then it could become more costly.

Have you considered making some kind of contribution but not as much as they are suggesting e.g. £1,000 and they contribute the rest? I would also point out that if you do commence legal proceedings, I would suggest you make sure how to particularise your claim as you don't want it being struck out for non-compliance.