Council Tax errors and summons

[jenko16]

Hi everyone

I hope you can give me some guidance here

Over 2 years ago, my Mum had a letter from Portsmouth City Council saying that they had miscalculated her disability allowance (she had cancer) and she had overpaid and was due a refund of around £800. She asked them why and they told her it was their mistake and it was fine. She was confused but said ok, but asked them to double check They did so and confirmed again it was correct. So when she received the cheque, she phoned them again and asked if it was definitely right before she spent the money and they told her it was.

She then passed away a few months later. A couple of months after that I received a letter from Portsmouth City Council to say that she owed around £600 for underpaid council tax.

I told them she had paid up to date, she had a direct debit in place which was in place until she died. They said there had been an error, and the money was owed. I asked them to send me a statement of account which came through, with the wrong address on.

I have now received a court summons, and I am planning to go and defend it - particularly on the basis that their statement of account has the wrong address.

Thoughts?

[des8]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Hi and welcome
sorry to hear of your loss.

Who is named on the summons?
Did your mother leave any assets and if so in round figures what was the size of the estate?
Who dealt with the estate, and did they have a grant of probate. (if so when granted?).
Was a section 27 notice posted
When did your mother pass away?
When did the council first request repayment of alleged underpayment?

Have you queried the incorrect address?

[jenko16]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Thanks for your reply - please see below

Hi and welcome
sorry to hear of your loss.

Who is named on the summons?

Exors of (mothers name)
C/O (my name)

Did your mother leave any assets and if so in round figures what was the size of the estate?

Approx £100,000

Who dealt with the estate, and did they have a grant of probate. (if so when granted?).

I did, and I was granted probate - granted end of June 2014

Was a section 27 notice posted

Dont think so

When did your mother pass away?

June 14th 2014


When did the council first request repayment of alleged underpayment?

July 2014

Have you queried the incorrect address?

No

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Hi Jenko16 ....

Just one observation .... when you talk about 'disability allowance' , are the council talking about a disability payment benefit that your mother received or are they talking about a council tax disability reduction, which is a banding reduction ( one band ) for disabled people who meet the criteria ( such as the use of a wheelchair in the home or a room converted specifically for that person with regard to their disability ?

If you attend the summons hearing ( presumably for the issue of a liability order ) you will only speak to a council officer and as you require specific and confirmed reasoning and calculation as to why the money is owed, you will probably have to follow that enquiry up at the council offices.

[Indebt]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Hi Jenko

I am sorry to read this sad story.

As I am interpreting what you are saying, it appears that the council made a "mistake" and miscalculated your mums disability allowance. The council then appear to have made a complete U-Turn and decided that it was a "mistake" to tell you that they had made a "mistake"

Unfortunately, councils can be pretty ruthless and pretty heartless. Furthermore, legislation enables them the ability to backdate their "mistakes" whereas taxpayers aren't given the same option.

Once a liability order is issued, it is very hard to get it overturned. The complexity of your case could well be way above the head of a magistrate in a liability order hearing. This would place you and your argument at a severe disadvantage.

I wouldn't place too much hope on the fact that the statement has the wrong address on it. This is very likely another "mistake", given that the summons has been sent to the correct address.

You may want to consider an appeal to a valuation tribunal, under section 16(1)(b) of the Local Government Finance Act 1992:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/section/16

The fact that you are executor of the estate complicates matters further. However, my feeling is that you should try every avenue open to you BEFORE the liability order hearing. The liability order hearing should be a last resort.

Before getting to the stage of appeal, you should write, giving notice of the reasons why you are aggrieved. Try to keep it as factual and constructive as you can. By all means include the fact that the wrong address was on the statement and suggest that this mistake may have contributed to the problem. End your letter/notice by asking, under the circumstances that the liability order hearing is postponed, pending the outcome of this dispute. The council will not be able to postpone the hearing once a summons has been issued but if they agree to it, it will be a formality at court. If the council do not agree, to postpone the hearing, you should write to the Clerk of the Justices and explain that you have issued an appeal that is on going and under the circumstances, you ask for an adjournment. If for any reason this is not resolved prior to your hearing, attend court on the day, explain the situation in person and ask for an adjournment, pending the outcome of the on going appeal.

In the meantime, try to get your head around the statement and see if it throws any light on the discrepancy .

[des8]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Also request a breakdown of their calculations.
Having got it wrong once, they may have done so again.
Also they may have their records mixed: wrong address/ wrong debtor?
Gather all the info you can and check it against your mothers records.

[jenko16]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Hi, thanks to everyone who replied. Just as an update, I attended the court today and after then visiting the council offices and a few firms words, they agreed to write it off due to the mistakes which were made at their end

Alls well that ends well, but I would encourage anyone in a similar position to go to their council and sit down and talk them through the case

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Hi Jenko16 ....

If you attend the summons hearing ( presumably for the issue of a liability order ) you will only speak to a council officer....

What kind of forum is this?

[charitynjw]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

[MENTION=69442]Adamna[/MENTION]

Could you clarify the above question?
Do you disagree with [MENTION=9242]Snoopy[/MENTION]'s comment?

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

@Adamna

Could you clarify the above question?
Do you disagree with @Snoopy's comment?

It's not so much that I disagree, as sadly it might in fact routinely be the case, for the uninformed. But that nobody, on a legal forum, saw fit to comment on advice that at a court hearing you would only speak to the prosecution, is astonishing.

[charitynjw]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

It's not so much that I disagree, as sadly it might in fact routinely be the case, for the uninformed. But that nobody, on a legal forum, saw fit to comment on advice that at a court hearing you would only speak to the prosecution, is astonishing.

Having experienced first-hand (assisting someone with CT problems) I know that @Snoopy is spot on.
There were about 20 or so people in the court waiting area......not one went anywhere near a Magistrate.
I specifically asked to see one; the council bod said 'no way, we deal with CT issues' (words to that effect).
They even took it back in-house rather than allow us to see a JP.
The whole shebang is run by the LA; a magistrate merely gives a 'seal of approval' (so it appears).

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax errors and summons

Some councils are now wording their summonses very carefully. Whilst on the one hand they are keen to say there is no need to attend the hearing, they are also stating that you have every right to. Which of course you do.
There are up to 5000 summonses sent out (per council) at a time, some court buildings will have 100 or so people turning up. Both the court and the council do give the firm impression that the council is running the show, and they should not.
However, there is often very little point in having 'the hearing' as the court will not address most genuine issues. This does not make it right, the invitation is to 'show why you have not paid', and that invitation should be honoured if you take the time and trouble to glam up for the party, only to be turned away at the host's door.
Am not just whinging, am trying to do something about it.