liability order help

[Indebt]

Re: liability order help

I would add the unrealistic and unreasonable demands the Rundles have been making into your complaint. Paragraph 24 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 states:
"Debtors must not be pressed to make unrealistic offers and should be asked to consider carefully any offer they voluntarily make and where possible refer to free debt advice."

Regulation 7 of the Council Tax (Deductions From Income Support) Regulations 1993 states:

"Where the adjudication officer has determined that there is sufficient entitlement to income support the Secretary of State may deduct a sum equal to 5 per cent. of the personal allowance for a single claimant aged not less than 25 and pay that sum to the authority towards satisfaction of any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made or the summary warrant or the decree was granted. "

Contacting your local councillor wouldn't be a bad idea regarding your problems proving that you left on April 15. If you notified the council by contacting a different department (possibly to apply for housing), the chances are that this department won't have notified the revenues department. If they have a record of your contacting them, then this will be good evidence that you had left your previous property and that you had indeed notified the council.

I would also add that as you had previously notified the council of a change of address and because of Rundles breaches of both legislation and National Standards, you ask that the council take this debt back and implement an attachment of benefits order, as prescribed in guidance offered by both the Department for Communities and Local Government and also the CAB/Local Government Association.

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

I don't suppose that you will get a response from the landlord before 14 days, but do give it a try.

Of course you can request copies of letters from the council. Call them on Monday and ask for them.

Can you not come up with any evidence at all that you moved out in April 2015?

I cannot see that you have any grounds to object to the first liability order (for the period up to April 1st 2015. What you need to be attacking is the 2nd Liability Order for over £1,000. Ask the council what period this if from (it will be from 1st April 2015 but we don't know the end date). You have an opportunity here to bring the debt down by almost £1,000.

If you can achieve challenging this second debt, the smaller one of approx £700 will be easier to maintain (and especially so if you are able to pay possibly £100 per month).

I can appreciate that you are not in a good position financially, but being brutally honest, almost all of the 3.7 million people who have a Liability Order issued against them every year are in a similar position.

Interestingly, I was reading a report last night where one enforcement company reported that when household visits are made, that in approx 25% of all cases, payment is made to the bailiff by a third party (friend or family member etc).

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

I would add the unrealistic and unreasonable demands the Rundles have been making into your complaint. Paragraph 24 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 states:

"Debtors must not be pressed to make unrealistic offers and should be asked to consider carefully any offer they voluntarily make and where possible refer to free debt advice."

Regulation 7 of the Council Tax (Deductions From Income Support) Regulations 1993 states:

"Where the adjudication officer has determined that there is sufficient entitlement to income support the Secretary of State may deduct a sum equal to 5 per cent. of the personal allowance for a single claimant aged not less than 25 and pay that sum to the authority towards satisfaction of any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made or the summary warrant or the decree was granted. "

Firstly, the National Standards are merely guidance.

In this particular case, Regulation 7 is not applicable.

[Indebt]

Re: liability order help

The LGO will not go against either the National Standards, OR the DCLG. Are you suggesting that it is right for a bailiff to demand ridiculously high payments from a single 21 year old mother on benefits?

If you think a council can take more than 5% off a person on benefits then I urge you to share this with the forum.

[Indebt]

Re: liability order help

30 September 2015, Milo stated:

"The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 was introduced on 6th April 2014 and to coincide with this regulation, the Ministry of Justice updated the previous National Standards. It must be stressed here that although the National Standards arenot legally binding, the government’s intention is that they are intended to be used by all enforcement agents, the enforcement companies that employ them, and the creditor (in most cases the local authority or HMCTS) who use their services."

[Amethyst]

Re: liability order help

[MENTION=30402]Milo[/MENTION] and [MENTION=90984]Indebt[/MENTION] - Can we keep this to the facts/case and leave the personal attacks out. I've edited a couple of posts. Thanks.

[Indebt]

Re: liability order help

I will refrain from posting further on this thread unless the OP requires help in instigating a formal complaint.

Legislation appears to have been breached here, the National Standards have been ignored and there is a possibility that evidence can be provided that an application for housing was made to the council from a different address. This could mean that an AOB may be considered, given the OP's circumstances. To suggest someone on benefits should pay £100 per month, is quite frankly appalling advice.

A formal complaint will resolve all issues in one go.

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

They never even gave me chance to give an amount, just said they can't accept less than £300+ per month which is ridiculous. I could probably pay £100 per month at a stretch, but I don't exactly receive a lot of money.

If you are able to get the large Liability Order (of over £1,000) removed then this leaves just on debt of approx £790 and if so, a payment of £100 per month would very likely be accepted given that this would clear the debt before the new council tax year (next April).

Before even considering a payment arrangement you should either get an appointment, or speak with Stepchange (or National Debt Line) and they will prepare a Income and Expenditure over the phone and email you a copy.

You mentioned in your earlier posts that you suffer from anxiety. Are you taking any medication?

If another tenant did not move into the property after you left on 15th April, then the landlord himself would be liable for paying council tax (even if the property was empty). If so, I would not hold out too much hope that he will reply to your email.

[Henti]

Re: liability order help

Does this mean that if the debtor has a car,. the bailiff cannot take it, if they are on benefits and it is worth more than 5% of them ? I thought the figure of 5% related to attachments, or have I got it wrong.

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

Does this mean that if the debtor has a car,. the bailiff cannot take it, if they are on benefits and it is worth more than 5% of them ? I thought the figure of 5% related to attachments, or have I got it wrong.

If the debtor has a vehicle, and is on benefits, the vehicle can still be taken.

Fortunately, in this particular case, the young lady does not have a vehicle.

[Henti]

Re: liability order help

Oh okay thanx.
The bailiff would have to go see though ?

[Henti]

Re: liability order help

What I mean is. If the bailiff was unable to agree a repayment at the first stage, wouldnt he have to visit in order to verify the statements made regarding assets. Before sending the instruction back ?

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

You mentioned in your earlier posts that you suffer from anxiety. Are you taking any medication?

If you are taking medication, it may be possible that you could be considered vulnerable. I look forward to your response.

[Adamna]

Re: liability order help

I am personally horrified at the suggestion that medication is the 'go to' evidence of vulnerability. Whilst it may of course be an easily acceptable indicator, those that continue to struggle without mind numbing also need respect. The fact that persecution can be responsible for vulnerability is somewhat ironic.

[Milo]

Re: liability order help

I am personally horrified at the suggestion that medication is the 'go to' evidence of vulnerability. .

Unfortunately, medication has become the norm given that so many people claim that they are from a vulnerable household (which the regulations do not recognise) and typically, they will use one of the many template letters from the Internet. Some sort of evidence should always be provided.