Council tax Liability order in progress

[bigjayce]

Hi All,

In 2013 we moved into a house, we initially wanted it long term and signed a 24 month agreement but due to the Landlord not making repairs, damp on the walls, leaking roofs etc we contacted him 6 months later, ended the agreement, moved out and have never been anywhere near the property since.

Now Durham county council are taking us to court for £6000 back council tax for this house as, the Landlord claimed it hasn't been re-let and the council are saying we took it on for 24 months so it's our responsibility!

Since then we have been contacted by debt collection agencies working on behalf of energy companies saying we owed nearly £4000 for gas and electric used at the property?? We asked for a copy of the statement which clearly shows that between £45 and £60 of Gas and Electric has been used at the property since we moved out, on seeing this we contacted the police and raised a case as someone was using the property and charging it to us, we have made Durham County Council aware of this and provided them with the crime number but they have said that although the sympathize as far as they are concerned we still owe this money and the will pursue it in which ever way they can once the liability order is granted.

What can I do ??

Jayce

[Kati]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

You could try contacting the CEO of Durham County Council (Terry Collins - terry.collins@durham.gov.uk). If you email him, he should make sure that it is looked into properly

I'll tag [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] for you too (he might be able to help/advise) xx

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

Hi

Email the head of finacne ( 151 officer ) and the head of legal ( monitoring officer )

Tell them the dates thast you left the property and ask them to provide exact reasons as to why your being charged, and ask them why it was not withdrawn upon you notifying them of the dates.

Some issuse you might face

Was you registered for CT anywhere else during the period

[bigjayce]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

Just we registered at the house we moved to in Billingham which is under Stockton County Council

[Kati]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

[MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] ... Durham County Council have a habit of going straight for a LO (and bailiffs) without giving anyone a chance to explain/prove they aren't liable for the debt

although, I've found that going to the top gets a good result. They're quick to back down if you show you mean business

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

Hi [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] lots of them do that, and they put up obstacles for the member of public sorting them out. You end up in a paperwork loop between the management that have made the error ( that get marked down if its exposed |) and the bailiffs.

Although, built in all council constitutions, and part of the LGFA , the three main officer of a council ( CEO, FINANCE LEGAL ) are the only ones legally responsible to the public. They can set up systems for complaints that take months, and are usualy given the the line management that your complain about. ( i bet this sound familiar to lots of people )

But, they cant stop the actions ( 28 day turnaround ) if your complaint is direct o the finance and legal officers. You can not bypass normal complaints systems this way, but you can with mistakes around charging for LO's

The trick is, this question

Tell them the dates thast you left the property and ask them to provide exact reasons as to why your being charged, and ask them why it was not withdrawn upon you notifying them of the dates.

Both monitoring officer and 151 officer would know that there internal rules for checking LOs, probably not been fully followed,

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

In all my years working in local taxation enforcement, I have never come across this exact situation.

Certainly, if it were a commercial property and subject to a lease, the lessee would remain liable for all rent and non domestic rates until the close of the lease, unless by other agreement with the landlord.

For council tax, you have in your favour that you have a further council tax account elsewhere to uphold the fact that you have moved. Did you make Durham County Council aware of your vacation. either by post, email or letter. I suspect that you did not otherwise you would have had a closing account, and I gather you never received that. Obviously you had a statutory obligation to do that.

Whether you retain any liability for the period between the date that you left and the end date of your 24 month lease is I suspect a tad more difficult, especially if you failed to formally close the council tax account on vacation. I guess this is an argument between the landlord, the lease agreement that you made and yourself. Then there is your argument that the property was considered unfit for habitation and that it why you state you left. On the 'pecking order' of ctax liability, and down the ladder, would be a tenant who has a lease to occupy but simply leaves. That council tax liability would ( I am assuming ) remain with you unless someone else occupied, like the landlord, another tenant ( legally or otherwise, or indeed a squatter. I would imagine that the landlord can insist that you maintain your tenancy lease obligation unless that agreement is broken by another in occupation. The only time I could imagine that argument would suffer is if the landlord kept the property available for your sole occupation at all times during the lease period which it sounds like he did not. But proving it is another matter.

Did you formally advise all other utilities of your departure with electric, gas and water meter readings? IS the landlord chasing you for the balance of the rent due in the lease period? Do you have any formal evidence of the stated poor condition of the property, including photos and professional opinions?

I would imagine that the council will give consideration to all of these circumstances and yes, I would write to the council's CEO and put all of the facts in front of him. I would be extremely interested to know the outcome of this.

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

HI [MENTION=62334]Snoopy1948[/MENTION]

Whether you retain any liability for the period between the date that you left and the end date of your 24 month lease is I suspect a tad more difficult

I think that only matters if there is an intent to re-occupy, and or, if you have somewhere else as a home. Although the rent and other bills would be due up to the end of the contract, liability for council tax for the occupying tenant ends at the end of the month that they leave. Some types of tenancy's, like student shares/tenancy's, can hold the tenant liable for CT till the end of the term, but i don't think, normal ast fixed terms can. ( am not sure though )
[MENTION=32782]bigjayce[/MENTION] few questions, ( more to do with ending the tenancy than the CT )

In 2013 we moved into a house, we initially wanted it long term and signed a 24 month agreement but due to the Landlord not making repairs, damp on the walls, leaking roofs etc we contacted him 6 months later, ended the agreement, moved out and have never been anywhere near the property since.

When you contact the LL, how did you do it, did you give notice, how long between givinh them notice and leaving. Do you have evidence of this

Since then we have been contacted by debt collection agencies working on behalf of energy companies saying we owed nearly £4000 for gas and electric used at the property?? We asked for a copy of the statement which clearly shows that between £45 and £60 of Gas and Electric has been used at the property since we moved out,

Did you stay with same supplier or change, did you give them previous address, did you take any meter readings ( like photo ). Do you owe some of that or none of it

Has the LL tried to claim any rent from you

[bigjayce]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

Hi,

I spoke to him by phone and gave him 30 days notice, I handed the keys back on the 30th Day, I have never been asked for any rent nor chased for any at any time.

We gave the suppliers the readings and the house we moved to was with a different supplier and we don't owe anything from it

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council tax Liability order in progress

HI @Snoopy1948



I think that only matters if there is an intent to re-occupy, and or, if you have somewhere else as a home. Although the rent and other bills would be due up to the end of the contract, liability for council tax for the occupying tenant ends at the end of the month that they leave. Some types of tenancy's, like student shares/tenancy's, can hold the tenant liable for CT till the end of the term, but i don't think, normal ast fixed terms can. ( am not sure though )
@bigjayce few questions, ( more to do with ending the tenancy than the CT )

From my experience the written rules are one thing, but putting them into practice another.

When a tenant leaves a property, and councils, being over dramatically bureaucratic, they will want the local taxation history to be contiguous. This means that in cases like this, they will have two stories to hear ... your own one and the landlords. The landlord may simply have said, for example, that your lease was for two years and he was keeping that tenancy open for you. It wouldn't matter if you had moved out as this could then be regarded as a second home, albeit for a prescribed period of time. The question is who do they believe and you will simply have to put your case to persuade them!