Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

I have now been hit with a Council Tax Liability Order even though I have paid every month by telephone banking the sum due for each month. We advised the council prior to the hearing that we would not be able to attend as we where on a pre booked holiday out of the country at the time of the hearing. We also advised them that as each payment we made actually covered 36.5 days our payments where actually in advance and they should amend there computer records to accurately reflect the payments made. As of the hearing date on the 24th August 2015 we had made 5 payments of 36.5 days which equals 182.5 days whereas 24th August is only 146 days so 36.5 days in credit. How can they get away with this there also now charging £75.00 costs as well.

Hi there ...

Seems to me that even through all of your exhaustive calculations, you still appear to have defaulted somewhere along the line. Have you actually looked at your bill to check the instalments offered and the dates that they are due? If you had kept your payments in line with that, there should have been no trouble whatsoever.

You cannot beat the system, it is a national one. Over the last year but one, I paid my council tax by bank transfer or by paying on the council site and occasionally I paid after their stated date, but only by a few days. I never had any feedback from the council. I suggest you have been late enough in payment to trigger a final demand and loss of the instalment privilege. Did you receive a final demand ( prior to summons ) and what, if anything, did you do about it? Any decent council would have allowed you to bring late instalments up to date and put you back on track to pay the remaining instalments. Did you take any action to do that?

Can I ask why you choose to pay by telephone banking? And would you prefer 12 instalments if they were available? Most councils will offer 12 instalments now and you only have to ask, stating that it suits your cash flow situation better.

I am also sorry to sound negative but if you ensured that payments were made on or by the due date instead of calculating measures of credit, then you would not be having this problem. Unless the council have made one big mistake here and if you believe that you need to be on the phone. I am assuming that all previous years remain paid up without arrear ? If so, have you done anything different this year?

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

I have paid in the month around 26/27 and council admit they have received it but insist the due date was 1st of the month when in fact the 2012 Act allows for payment upto the last day in the month

Interesting, Just for Info this.

There is some conflict in different legislation ( i think, am an idiot so may be wrong here )

It seems to arrise from when the CT is chargeable from as a monthly/yearly amount ( 1St Apr ) = full month due. Legally full amount due, untill the council recalculate less ( ie if you move )

Wereas, when that become overdue, and how thats interpited for CT, is not as straight forward, The Key to understand ing this is the time scale built in the Local Gov Finance act and other related/updated legislation for taking further action against a member of the public

Some councils, count it due from the 1st of the month, hence the 14 days late is by the 14th of the month, 7 days notice takes them to the 21st of the month, allowing the council to take further action.

I am also sorry to sound negative but if you ensured that payments were made on or by the due date instead of calculating measures of credit, then you would not be having this problem.

If council managers actual ever worked in normal finance or management.... instead of just promoted line management from floor sweepers up.. regardless of ability, skill or knowledge, then perhaps, the public wouldnt be attacked in this way, and i do mean attacked.

( not meant at you [MENTION=62334]Snoopy1948[/MENTION] ), aimed at a system that most people dont understand how it runs internally, if they did, there would be uproar.

[veryannoyed]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Snoopy 1948 I ackknowledge your background but its people like you I have been up against at my local council. What my local council failed to realise was the total change by statute in 2012 giving everyone the right to payment in 12 months. The critical part in the magistrates eye was the statement. "These Regulation give effect to the Government's wish that council taxpayers should be entitled to pay by 12 month instalments without having to enter into such an agreement with the billing authority".
The council line was they only had 3 options one involving payment by direct debit which had to be notified in advance. The statutory 10 months due on the first of the month or payment in full on 1st April.
The magistrate also agreed that the council had failed to comply with the 2012 Act in respect of notifying the 12 month option on the demand notice.
My case was squeaky clean with payments made prior to the statutory last day of the month and for amounts in excess of the statutory minimum. What did come out of the trial was the council had not modified there computer system to reflect the 2012 Act and as such are issuing final demands that are illegal.

[veryannoyed]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Crazy Council your right there is a conflict in different legislation, The 10 month statutory scheme as far as I am aware is classed as part 1 of the legislation and the 1992 Act can be used to recover outstanding liability. The problem arises as I believe the statutory 2012 12 month scheme is classed as a part 2 scheme so the 1992 Act cannot be used for recovery as its a normal council debtor.

[seduraed]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Surely if the payment is due on the first, then fifteen days overdue is the fifteenth of the month.

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Surely if the payment is due on the first, then fifteen days overdue is the fifteenth of the month.

Name ANY other financial institution that would act like that

Mortgagee co, allow you to pay anytime during the month, but then you can move morgagee co when you want

So would most finace co's,

Council can be as abusive as they like because you cant change

[veryannoyed]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Surely if the payment is due on the first, then fifteen days overdue is the fifteenth of the month.

But this is whats so important about the 2012 Act it changes the goal posts with a minimum number of 14 days credit and requirement to pay in the month but only a minimum of 1/12 not 1/10.

[Crazy council]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

hi [MENTION=53806]veryannoyed[/MENTION]

Just for Info There are other rules and regs in play as well ;

Auditing rules from 2003 govern the checks that the council officers must do before taking further action, ( main one ignored is to check allocated account ( payin in account ) for further credits during that month ) ( the rules depend on what body the 151 officer is registered with ( CIPFA ect ) )

each council can, under there constitutional arraignments ( part of the localisum acts ) change the dates and minimum amounts before action. , but this has to be agreed by the court ( magistrates ) ( again, abusively used )

There real magic trick that council try and pull ( sound like your did ), is

When the Council Officer applys for the LO ( at least 2 weeks before, and actually attends courtt ) they are supposed to have check the account for payment before they proceed ( legal requirement ) . They hardly ever do, infact, at my shambles, they only check if you turn up, and then, usually after arguing with you that you owe it and have to pay it.

Why they do it is even more complex to get your head around, Basicaly, CT account on Liability orders, report differenly in the audit, If the account is with the council, and it has to be corrected, there marked down on it ( minimum level is 94% accuracy before external audit ) , wereas, if its with the baillifs on LO, as long as its not passed back in the same finacial year, its not marked down if it needs correcting

Sorry rant over ( its one of my targets )

[veryannoyed]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

This document was very helpful.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...0123086_en.pdf

[lgfa92]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

Crazy Council your right there is a conflict in different legislation, The 10 month statutory scheme as far as I am aware is classed as part 1 of the legislation and the 1992 Act can be used to recover outstanding liability. The problem arises as I believe the statutory 2012 12 month scheme is classed as a part 2 scheme so the 1992 Act cannot be used for recovery as its a normal council debtor.

Out of curiosity, can you clarify why you believe that is so regarding recovery of a Part 2 scheme ?

If you also check SI3086/2012 re the implementation of the 12 statutory instalments it is implemented under regs 13 and 14 as a Part 1 scheme which is inserted in to schedule 1, paragraph 2.

LGFA92

[Sporting]

Re: Council tax rules re 10 annual payments.

If you owe(d) money from a previous year won't they have allocated one of your payments to the previous years debt, and that is why you are seen to be in arrears for this year, and that is why you were issued with notices?.
Saying all that if it was the case then the council should have resolved this if it was clear over the phone, albeit leaving the £70(costs?) owing still.