Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

[samsmoot]

HI all.

Are Council Tax Liability Hearings subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

If so, can a Defendant get the Hearing moved closer to their home, as per the CPR?

[It's about Council Tax from a while back and they have moved away from the borough].

[ploddertom]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

The Liability Order Hearing will be heard at the Magistrates Court the Council use, no chance of having it moved.

[Crazy council]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

am not suer about that plodder tom.

samsmoot... do you owe all of the money claimed...... are you currently in reciept of benefits of any kind

[wales01man]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

As we are lead to believe that Liability orders are rubber stamped in bulk without a Magistrate seeing them why would a Council let it go to anther court.

[samsmoot]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

am not suer about that plodder tom.

samsmoot... do you owe all of the money claimed...... are you currently in reciept of benefits of any kind

Not my debt - but yes, ESA is being received by the alleged debtor.

[Crazy council]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

Hi

If the council have not got the liability order yet, first stage is to email them, tell them that the defendant would struggle to be able to attend a court that was not his local court, request them to do it in there local court, they may say no, but you can use this to move it.

Do everything recorded.. I will ask on of the adviser i use on friday to confirm fully

[samsmoot]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

As we are lead to believe that Liability orders are rubber stamped in bulk without a Magistrate seeing them why would a Council let it go to anther court.

That's what I am trying to find out. If the CPR applies I don't see why they wouldn't have to adhere to the rules - if the CPR doesn't apply, then I might expect the Magistrates' Court rules to apply - but as that's mainly concerned with criminal matters would Criminal Procedure apply? If not, then what procedure does the hearing come under?

[samsmoot]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

Hi

If the council have not got the liability order yet, first stage is to email them, tell them that the defendant would struggle to be able to attend a court that was not his local court, request them to do it in there local court, they may say no, but you can use this to move it.

Do everything recorded.. I will ask on of the adviser i use on friday to confirm fully

Thanks Crazy council that's really kind of you.

The Defendant would definitely have a struggle getting to court, so I'll let them know they can ask for it to be moved in any case.

The debt is disputed, BTW - they were living in a House in Multiple Occupation and the landlord was liable for CT - but gave the names of ex-tenants saying they were liable. This would appear to me to be a complete defence if correct.

The alleged debtor is in communication and a payment plan has been offered and the Council say they will hold off with collection in the meantime. A letter was sent denying responsibility for the CT and upon reply or after 2 months an appeal can be made to the Valuation Tribunal, if I understand it right. The alleged debtor has also requested the means to apply for Council Tax Benefit for the period in question - they were in receipt of HB and would have applied for CTB if they needed to - which they didn't because CT and water rates were included in the rent.

Thanks again.

[Crazy council]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

The debt is disputed, BTW - they were living in a House in Multiple Occupation and the landlord was liable for CT - but gave the names of ex-tenants saying they were liable. This would appear to me to be a complete defence if correct.

Hi, i was an agent for years and have a himo myself... If the property was a himo ( two or more tenants not related ) , then without question, the LL is responcable.

If the tenacy was a jiont between 2 individuals, this can be claimed iether way..

How to deal with this. ( i deal with council tax officer morons all the time )

Bypass any complaints procedure, email the head of benefits and revenues ( google for the email ). Inform tham that it was a himo, and ask them to show why it was not. explain how its costing the defendant stress dealing with it.

Request confirmation opf any actions within 14 days.

If they are going to argue that its not a himo ( joint tenacy ),, do they still have the tenancy agreement, if so ask them for a copy. Was the property a HIMO before or after. If you explain the fully details of the tenacy, i will tell you if its a himo ro not

[samsmoot]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

Thanks again for your help.

Yes, I have suggested that they be asked to prove the debt via a few questions - obviously the main one being whether or not they have evidence that it's not a HMO. Depends on their next move, ie if it will go to court or not, but may be worth putting some Qs in early anyway. They've had the letter so hopefully they'll answer swiftly.

There were multiple occupants - 3 or more lets I believe. I have no idea as to the HMO status pre- and post-tenancy - I will ask.

Problem maybe - the tenancy agreement was a standard one with no alteration - said tenant was to pay CT and water bills - landlord said to ignore that part. Council do have a copy, I think. May not be a problem though as the law/regulations would hopefully override the contract.

Some facilities were shared in the house - the washing machine for one thing - I will try and clarify.

[Crazy council]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

Its nopt a problem. The LL deffinatly owes the council tax if its a himo ( 2 or more occupants not related, seporate room lets or share )

The legislation around himos overrides standard AST terms in relation to council tax. Am faily sure.

I , as a landlord, can charge my tenants of himos for council tax, myself,contractualy, buit i can not change the responsibility or liability to them... If it does not get paid, its me that gets the charge. Dealing with the council in this situation will be difficult, as they will just say, " your contract startes this, bla, bla ".

Email them as i said earlyer. should do it.

[samsmoot]

Re: Are Council Tax Liability Hearings Subject to Civil Procedure Rules?

Will pass on your suggestions.

Ta.