Bailiff Charges with no proof

[TheTurtle]

Hi,

To cut a rather long story short,

I fell behind on my council tax and they passed it on to a bailiff the council where unwilling to have anything to do with the debt anymore. I have been trying to get a payment plan set up with the council and in the mean time been paying some money each month. (This is for this current tax year)

Anyway a new bailiff from the same company turns up yesterday and demands all funds in 48hrs or hell be back. To put an end to the matter i have borrowed the money off a family member to clear the debt.

When i called to make payment of the 1585 they where asking for in the letter he wrote that morning i asked for a breakdown of costs the bailiff then swiftly said he hadn't taken off 120 that was paid in march so it was less then i speak with the council to confirm amounts and another 200 hd not been taken off since september and october! so charges included it was only 1265

I asked what the charges are for and was told it was for a 2 visits which i understand they can charge 24.50 and 18 for and then an "attendance" and a levy on cars and furniture. He has never been in our house and and i have never been given a NOS.

Am i Right in thinking that the attendance fee can only be charged with a valid levy and the levy fails as you can't levy anything with out a NOS and even it it was would it not be a abandoned levy?

This morning i paid the arrears direct to the council along with the two visit fees and emailed them stating what the funds where for. Am i now to expect the bailiff to still chase theses random charges?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

Hello TheTurtle

Not sure I follow exactly what fees you've been charged, but as you've paid the council rather than the bailiff, you may find that the visit fees amounting to £42.50 will be credited to your Council Tax account.

This is pure speculation based on whether or not it is your council's policy to pay bailiffs out of funds you have paid to the council direct. However, I doubt that would stop the bailiff demanding his fees if they are credited to your Council Tax account.

With regards the attendance / levy issue, see if this makes any sense?

[TheTurtle]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

Hi,
Thanks for your response i have been given a breakdown of fees today which are the below.

Sep 2nd 24.50 Visit 1
Sep 3rd 18.00 Visit 2
Sep 19th 62.00 Levy
Sep 19th 150 Attendance / Van

I was not in for any of these visits and like i said no now was left on the 19th also if they have had this levy since 19th sep would they not have taken the car by now? (which is what they say it is on)

When i spoke to the council yesterday they said if i was to make payment to them they would just pass this on to the bailiff which i found very odd.

[enquirer]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

When i spoke to the council yesterday they said if i was to make payment to them they would just pass this on to the bailiff which i found very odd.

See if you can manoeuvre them into putting this gem in writing.

[TheTurtle]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

Ok ill give it a go is that something that they should not do?

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

With Council Tax the Bailiffs are allowed to deduct their fees first and any balance is then paid to the Council. It will probably be that the Council have an agreement that monies paid direct are paid to the Bailiffs.

If you have no Notice of Seizure then any levy they are claiming is questionable as it is a legal requirement for a NoS to be left. If the Bailiffs are being less than helpful then dump it all in the Council's lap as they are 100% liable for the actions of their Agents. They in turn will squirm and say they cannot do anything but just remind of their vicarious liability.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

This is a response to a FOI request made to Mid Sussex District Council, which by all accounts should be unrelated, but appears relevant.

Return of fraudulent bailiff fees

"If any payments are made direct to Mid Sussex District Council in respect of bailiff fees putting an account in credit the credit would be transferred to Rossendales.....

[TheTurtle]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

Ok so i would be right to assume that the council will have transferred the £24.50 and £18 to the bailiff and the bailiff would still want his fees?

[outlawlgo]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

As ploddertom's view, there is likely to be an agreement between the authority and bailiff contractor. You need confirmation from your council as to whether or not any monies are outstanding on the relevant year's Council Tax.

As enquirer implies, I agree any money you pay the council in respect of your liability should not be passed to the bailiffs, I would go as far as saying it is unlawful (that's my opinion). However, in all probability, they would pass on to the bailiff firm any surplus to the Council Tax owed, and leave it between you and the bailiff to settle.

All this is speculation so most importantly you need confirmation from your council.

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[TheTurtle]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
2 - the dates they were obtained
3 - the addresses they were for
4 - the period of time each covers
5 - how much each one was for
6 - how much is still outstanding
7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

Thanks, ok asked those questions on the phone and asked here to confirm the answers in writing the below is here response.So i have emailed back the questions to get here to put it in writing but she avoid the questions on Liability Orders on the phone and would not give a real answer.



"Dear Mr Southam

I can confirm I have advised Rundle & Co Ltd of your payment and confirm that the council tax debt for 2013 is now paid and they will note £42.50 of their fees are paid. As I advised in our phone conversation today, the bailiff company may pursue you for the other costs they advise have been incurred.

Yours sincerely



Mrs J Keyworth
Revenue Recovery"

How ever this lack of willing to actually say anything is how they have been from the start, after i explained why i feel behind (at this point only 2 months behind) and offed to pay a bit each month the below is what i got back

"Thank you for your email dated 11 September 2013.

I write to advise that I am unable to intervene regarding any arrangement proposal as your account was sent correctly to the Bailiff.

Please contact Rundle & Co on telephone number 08456 585030 to discuss an arrangement.

Regards


Mrs S Leaver
Senior Revenue Assistant
Revenue Recovery"

[ploddertom]

Re: Bailiff Charges with no proof

Obviously it appears that your Council are in cahoots with the Bailiffs and refuse to answer or provide information who are entitled to. You could submit a Subject Access Request on them but this takes 40 days and suspect they will drag their heels.

To move forward try involving your local Councillor(s) best initial contact is by phone. If possible show them this website. If they refuse or are reluctant then you can go over their head to the Leader of the Council and his opposite number. It does seem as if you are getting close to submitting a Formal Complaint to the Council CEO prior to going to the LGO.