Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

[benjahman]

New to this forum but really need some help with this. Basically would just like to know where I stand in terms of legal or tenancy rights?
The story goes like this...

I moved into my own place for the first time at the age of 19 in May last year with two friends. A three bedroom terraced house near the city centre. The day we moved in I rang up the local council to sort out a direct debit for my council tax payments and I was told it would be around about £1000 a year. Ended the call with the direct debit all set up and sorted and I moved onto to sorted everything else out that day (water, tv license, electric/gas etc). About a week later the same woman from the council tax office rang me back to inform me they wouldn't be taking any payments from me because the landlord was liable to pay as the house was classed as an HMO property (House in Multiple Occupancy) now at first only having lived in my own place for merely a week I wasn't quite sure what that meant but she assured me to not worry as the landlord was paying. So some good news I thought. I informed the estate agents about this straight away and they pretty much told me that I should take it as good news and not question it if they were telling me I didn't have to pay anything. All good in my eyes.

Anyway, last Friday, almost a year later, my estate agent rang me up saying the landlord had been sent a bill from the council tax office for the full amount from May til now. Turns out he hadn't been paying it, also because according to the council tax office, they had found out through their own means that our house only used to be an HMO property but had been unclassified as that either just before we moved in or when we moved in. I understand that from now on we are going to have to start paying council tax which is totally fine, but the estate agent is now saying that that bill is now probably going to fall on our heads as 'there has been a fault on both parties here'.

Now in my eyes, how can this be my fault when the council tax office themselves refused to take my payments and told me I didn't have to pay (which I was more than willing to), and the estate agents also reassured me it was fine and not to really question anything. Do I have any legal rights here? I feel very angry about this, especially after its took them so long to notify me about this. Can anybody help me with some advice on what options I have?

Thanks.
Ben

[seduraed]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

don't panic but wait for other more knowledgable beagles will be along . Did you get this statement from the council that you weren't liable in writing ? If Not you should do #subject access request with the £10 statutory fee to he council and see if there is a note of this on the record .

[seduraed]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

don't panic but wait for other more knowledgable beagles will be along . Did you get this statement from the council that you weren't liable in writing ? If Not you should do subject access request with the £10 statutory fee to the council and see if there is a note of this on the record . you are three people and there fore form an HMO . Depending on your council you may need to be registerd. The landlord will have to supply an annual Gas certificate and a fiveyearly electrical certificate. The Definition of an HMO is three or more person who are not members of the same household.

[bizzybob]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

Send in a Formal Complaint to the Hesad of Revenues and the Council CEO, copied to the elected leader and the ward coucillor and MP. highlight the fact that you were told the landlord should be paying. What council is this ,as some councils are infested by Capita or Liberata, in which case the default position is obtain a Liabilkity Order in every circumstance, and send bailiffs. Other Beagles will be along soon, but I would get the councillors involved. you can find them on www.writetothem.com

[atendoftether]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

There are a few issues here, firstly I do not think that your household would be clsssed as an HMO in my experience working in Housing/council tax benefits HMO's were hostels/dwellings where tenants had rooms only and had shared facilities. I would have thought that you has a 3 way lease. It should also be specified in your tenancy agreement as to whether you are liable for council tax.
I think finding out what the council said if it is not in writing is a dead end. They would point out that you initially agreed to pay the tax so you knew you had liability. I am puzzled as to why the landlord has been given a bill if you are liable, that part does not make sense as the owner has to say who is living in the property, this all sounds a bit odd to me and if you do not have a bill in your names you cannot currently pay it anyway, I would caution you against handing any money over either to the landlord or the estate agent
You could go after maladministration of your council tax account once you have one and see if the council would accept a level of administrative error, and see if the bill could be reduced. As previous posters have said though Councils that are are administered by Capita (I use an extra r before the p as I have had numerous run -ins with them) are quite harsh. The local council cancelled the zero rate on my late mothers home and demanded over £1k straight off and my appeal failed. It might be worth going to CAB or if the council has a housing advice service contact them. Finally I would get in touch with your local councillor as they are in effect the employers of the Council tax department and may be able to put some pressure on them.(in my experience as a worker in local authorities they had quite a lot of sway and it was imperative to respond asap) You do not mention if you are students as there may be some exemption issues.
Good luck

[benjahman]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

Thanks for the advice so far everyone. I live in Sunderland so it'll be the Sunderland City Council I will be dealing with. And no, none of us are students, we are all in full time employment. I am noting down all of this feedback, anything else would be greatly approciated.

Thanks again,
Ben

[benjahman]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

Also, just looked through my tenancy agreement, nothing on there in the 'Tenant agrees to...' section about us being liable to pay council tax, but in the rather short 'Landlord agrees to...' section it does say this...

'To pay all taxes, assessments and other outgoings charged upon or payable in respect of the premises save those herein before provided for as the tenant's obligation.'

Now does this refer to council tax at all?

[benjahman]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

Going to talk to the estate agent about this tomorrow, any advice on what I should be saying or asking her?

[Buddster]

Re: Having problems over hmo property dispute. Help?

Also, just looked through my tenancy agreement, nothing on there in the 'Tenant agrees to...' section about us being liable to pay council tax, but in the rather short 'Landlord agrees to...' section it does say this...

'To pay all taxes, assessments and other outgoings charged upon or payable in respect of the premises save those herein before provided for as the tenant's obligation.'

Now does this refer to council tax at all?

If this helps, I have had something similar on my tenant agreement and bought this up with the council (although it didn't say taxes, just says 'the LL is responsible to all out goings for the property except gas,electric and phone line').

In the eyes of lawyers I have asked about this, to them, this means the landlord is liable for the CT as it doesn't state that I am.
However, in the eyes of the council, as it doesn't say anything about CT, I am therefore liable.
Don't make it easy do they!

In your case, you'd think 'taxes' would refer to council tax, but i don't know for sure on that I'm afraid.

Good luck