They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

[dca]

Okay please bear with me as this is a complicated one.

I have not had much experience with bailiffs aside from once before a while back.

Anyway I had a Bailiff knock on the door at 6am. I buzzed him into the communal hallway (see below) opened the door to my flat and he put his foot halfway across the threshold after introducing himself, at this point I made my second mistake by not slamming the door in his face.

To answer your first question... Because his ring pattern sounds (buzzer is broken rings but you cannot speak or cannot hear dependent on the day sometimes one or the other sometmes both) exactly like an annoying relatives that calls at all hours (I need to stop opening the door I know),
Because it was 6am and I had got in from work at 4am and had about 90 minutes sleep, because I am disabled with an autistic condition that makes confrontation difficult, because I was only wearing boxers and I thougt it was a relative... or because I am an idiot any or all you can pick.

He only had at most a foot in the doror and no levy or walking possession list was made or presented.

I did not at any point give my name and emphatically told him I gave no permission to enter.

He handed me a notice of attendance which lists a charge for unpaid Council Tax to islington council for around 1000 pounds.

I told him I would not pay and said you may as well leave, I did not ask him exactly though it was implied.

I agreed to pay 500 pounds this friday the 26th of april 2013 as that was the minimum he would accept then 80ppm until the debt is cleared, I only intend on paying the bailiff as a last resort.

I have since issued a letter of cease and desist as per crimebodge.

I intend to chase this up with the Local authority tommorow as a matter of urgency, (obviously, duh why did I write as a matter of urgency).

The notice says £1000 ish my online ctax account lists the liability order and a debt remaining of £500ish as I have been paying it off for the last year (without an actual agreement, duh again).

My questions are as follows as google is not my friend, he keeps telling me yes one minute and no the next.

Is half a foot over the threshold peacful entry?

Is the cease and desist order valid as no levy or walking possession was made/signed or otherwise? this list at beatthebailiffs gives me hopes on this.


As no levy or walking possession was made is the (possible) peaceful entry now grounds for goods to be seized without levy in or with myabsence? again list at beatthebailiffs

If I do get the council to take back the debt should I then contact the number on the attendance to let them know?

Similarly if the cease and desist is valid or I pay off the entirity of the debt that the council says I owe should I contact the number on the letter?

It seems that from other results I got entry can only be forced once a levy is made? is this correct.

Thanks either way in advance

Dc

[dca]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Okay, so I phoned the recovery team and they confirmed I had been overcharged and lowered the debt, They have also told me that if I pay the debt to them, they can then inform The bailiffs.

Although they could not arrange a payment plan as such. Then the guy phones me saying I had no intention of paying and he will be here in a half hour.

Also that he did a levy on one item that was on my wall.

Do not know if he will show as I said no mention of a levy or walking possession on his last visit. Which was the first I saw of him.

[outlawlgo]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

It's likely a complete myth that a foot in the door constitutes peaceful entry. Even if goods have been seized by a valid levy, they can't force entry into your home without this being sanctioned. Also bear in mind the probability of this happening. Out of thousands of cases where goods are levied, removal actually takes place in no more than 1 or 2 cases.

It is just generalised advice when stated that forced entry is permissible after gaining peaceful entry. When put into context, there also needs to be a lawful levy, i.e., the goods seized must be real, not just made up and listed after the visit like North East Lincolnshire Council's bailiffs Rossendales have been caught doing.

So, whether or not a foot in the door could be construed as peaceful entry, the chances of him making a lawful levy for which at a future point he may force entry to remove goods, is highly improbable.

As a final caution, beware of goods outside you home (a car for example). They don't need to gain peaceful entry to levy these or to break into your home to take them. However, in the case of North East Lincolnshire council, their bailiffs Rossendales levy random vehicles, not with the intention of taking them, but solely to charge the levy fee.

[bluebottle]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

There is case law that deals with this "foot in the door" tactic used by certificated bailiffs, namely, Rai & Rai -v- Birmingham City Council [1993]. If he put his foot in the door to prevent it being closed, then he has not valid or lawful levy as this would amount to non-peaceable entry, which is another way of saying the bailiff forced entry without the authority of a court order, which is illegal.

Any levy this bailiff may claim he has is totally invalid and unenforceable due to his failure to keep within the law. Your health makes you vulnerable within the meaning of the Ministry of Justice's National Standards for Enforcement Agent, which the bailiff's employers and your local council have both signed as agreeing to comply with them.

Just as a matter of interest, which firm of bailiffs is involved.

[dca]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Thanks, I was not sure but that makes me feel better.

[bluebottle]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Ask the council which firm of bailiffs they are using.

[dca]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Hi,

It was Chandlers and the bailiff may have had the initials JR and a a surname that may or my not rhyme with coff. It's been an hour with no sign yet, as an aside I have paid the debt of £500 straight to the Islington council recoveries team. I had trouble finding their number on-line but if anyone needs it's the usual followed by 2111 (Izzi residents will likely know the prefix its not hard to find)

I have to say they were really helpful and have said they will notify the bailiffs straight away.

Now it's just the fee's. I asked the Bailiff before his half hour threat to send a breakdown of fees, still nearly £300 although he was adamant that the full amount was payable.

As the debt was a thousand and twentyish incorrectly as there system was out of date any ideas what they are due?

As I have paid the debt and issued the cease and desist can they add more?

I cannot fathom the kind of person that does this for a living.

Thanks again for the help, just being able to read about people who have beat these guys made me feel better.

The guy from the Islington Council Recoveries team was even a little surprised at the forced entry threat, he said as I had paid on the dot every month if I had contacted them earlier they probably would have taken it back.

As a thought is there anyway the thread can be tagged foot in the door peaceful entry no levy or walking possession can entry be forced or some such? If I had seen a more definitive answer I would have felt much better.

Btw chandlers online payments for fees is "connect" followed by their web address again just in case.

Thanks again, I will post updates if I have any, as far as I'm concerned you all rock for helping so many people.

[bluebottle]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Hi,

It was Chandlers and the bailiff may have had the initials JR and a a surname that may or my not rhyme with coff. It's been an hour with no sign yet, as an aside I have paid the debt of £500 straight to the Islington council recoveries team. I ad trouble finding there number on line but if anyone needs it's the usual followed by 2111 (Izzi residents will likely know the prefix its not hard to find)

I have to say they were really helpful and have saidthy will notify the bailiffs straightaway.

Now it's just the fee's. I asked the Bailiff before his half hour threat to send a breakdown of fees, still nearly £300 although he was adamant tht the full amount was payable.

As the debt was a thousand and twentyish incorrectly as there system was out of date any ideas what they are due?

As I have paid the debt and issued the cease and desist can they add more?

I cannot fathom the kind of person that does this for a living.

Thanks again for the help, just being able to read about people who have beat these guys made me feel better.

The guy from the Islington Council Recoveries team was even a little surprised at the forced entry threat, he said as I had paid on the dot every month if I had contacted them they probably would have taken it back.

As a thought is there anyway the thread can be tagged foot in the door peaceful entry no levy or walking possession can entry be forced or some such?

Thanks again, I will post updates if I have any, as far as I'm concerned you all rock for helping so many people.

Once a certificated bailiff has forced entry in breach of the law, any levy they obtain or attempt to obtain will be invalid and unenforceable. Under such circumstances, they would not be able to force entry thereafter legitimately.

Cease and Desist letters are only effective in cases of persistent and sustained behaviour that amounts to harassment. For example, repeatedly demanding you pay money you do not owe and threatening you if you do not is harassment. However, it is also Blackmail, under the Theft Act 1968, as any person making such a demand would have no right in law to make such a demand and using threats as a means of enforcing the demand is not considered proper or lawful.

Certificated bailiffs all too frequently consider themselves to be above the law and untouchable. The reality is that they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us and can be arrested, prosecuted and punished if they transgress. The only thing preventing this is the ignorance of police officers who receive little, if any training, in bailiff matters.

If this bailiff has only visited once and once only, he is only entitled to charge £24.50. He can't claim for a levy or WPO, because he doesn't have a LAWFUL levy, so he can whistle for that.

From what you have said, London Borough of Islington appear to have acted in a fair, reasonable and sensible manner in this matter. Speak to them again and ask if you can pay any LAWFUL bailiff fees to them and refer Chandlers to them if they want their fees. It will cause Chandlers a lot of inconvenience and they will have to wait for payment of their LEGITIMATE fees. But, then, if they played things to the letter of the law and ensured their employees did likewise, they wouldn't be put to such inconvenience, if you know what I mean.

[CleverClogs]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

It was Chandlers and the bailiff may have had the initials JR and a a surname that may or my not rhyme with coff.

Nackeroff?

Now it's just the fees. I asked the Bailiff before his half hour threat to send a breakdown of fees, still nearly £300 although he was adamant that the full amount was payable.

Bailiffs tell lies.

I cannot fathom the kind of person that does this for a living.

What else is there for a sociopath to do, if he's too old to belong to a gang?

[dca]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

There's always the Civil Service..... I kid I did two stints myself...... Oh wait.

[enquirer]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

What else is there for a sociopath to do, if he's too old to belong to a gang?

Atos are recruiting.

[dca]

Re: They have technically gained peaceful entry... but can they seize... please help

Hey Guys,

No letter or further visits yet.

Just thought I would update the thread in case it is helpful for anyone in the future.

I'll post any further updates.

Thx.

Dc