Council tax bailiffs help!!

[beckyt]

Last week a bailiff hand delivered a First Notice through the door for my other half regarding a council tax debt. OH phoned the head office on the letter to arrange a payment plan, he was told they couldn't discuss the case at all and anything has to go through the bailiff but before a payment plan can start, OH has to pay around £100 which they gave us a week to come up with. They told us to phone the bailiff at the end of the week to pay.

We're on ESA at the moment due to OH's extreme anxiety - so this last week has been fun! - and pretty much every penny is accounted for. We don't have takeaways, treats, etc, our tiny (£80) savings were eaten up last week when our oven went bang and we had to buy another second hand one.

We've had to phone around and delay some bills, OH and I have barely eaten and have managed to scrape together £90 out of the ESA payment this week. No idea what we're going to do when the delayed bills need paying, or OH and I need to eat but trying not to think about that!

OH phones the bailiff on Tuesday after the week to pay the £90, no answer so leaves a message. Yesterday tries him again, nothing. Today OH rings head office desperate to pay what we can before we have our things removed, HO said they don't deal with any payments at all unless he was paying the full amount and he'll just have to keep ringing the bailiff. After trying several times (the bailiff is on a mobile so now dreading the phone bill!) he finally answered. OH asked to pay the money and the bailiff said it's actually £150 that needs to be paid before a payment plan can start! OH explained we're on ESA and have no spare money. The bailiff said he can't take payments over the phone so will come around on Wednesday to take the money we have and discuss payment plans.

Everything I've read said do not let bailiffs into your home under any circumstance, is this right? Why do we have to pay this huge chunk before we can start a payment plan? Why can't head office organise anything? Where do they expect us to pull all of this money from? We've had experience with debt collection agencies before, and they've always written to offer a payment plan, used sending a bailiff out as a last resort and head office has always dealt with payments.

OH is in an absolute state over this and I'm pretty scared too.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

From what you say this sounds like Rossendales? There is no law that says you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. Keep off the phone to them unless you can record the call - they tend to have selective memories. The reason he wants to come round is to make a levy on your goods, then whatever agreement they come up with will be engineered to default meaning he can then add even more fees. Regardless of what he says or does he has no right of entry to your home. He cannot arrest you, imprison you or do any other manner of things he may come up with. providing you deny him entry to your home or prevent him obtaining a levy on goods outside - a car perhaps - then the maximum charges he may apply are £42-50 tops. Doesn't matter how many times he comes he can add no more - however if you decide to let him in the fees could well be in the hundreds.

I note you say you get ESA, do you get other Benefits? You may be classed as being potentially vulnerable according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and you should write a letter to both Council & Bailiffs pointing this out, the account may then possibly be returned to the Council.

Council Tax is a priority debt and must be paid. You may pay the Council direct using online banking, Council website or automated phone, you may also pay in cash at the Council & if met with refusal should ask the name & positionof the person refusing. Paying with any of those establishes you are willing to pay and is best done weekly - £5 every Thursday for example. Do you know how much you owe as confirmed by the Council?

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

You are correct in that you should never allow a bailiff into your home, no matter what lies they may come out with order to gain entry. What the bailiff and the bailiff company HO has come out with is gold-plated bovine excrement. You do not have to pay any amount in order to set up a payment plan and it is a breach of a bailiff company's debt collection licence to make you pay or attempt to make you pay more than you can realistically afford. From what you have said, it sounds like one or both of you may be classed as vulnerable under MoJ National Standards for Enforcement Agents, which means the bailiffs have to refer back to the council for direction in the case of CT debtors.

Could you answer the following, please -

1. How many Liability Orders do you have against you?
2. How much is the debt for?
3. Did you receive a notice to pay the CT in full?
4. Have you received a summons to attend court?
5. Have you received notification of the Liability Order?
6. Which bailiff company is involved?

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

Phew, thankyou! Couldn't get through on the council phonelines this afternoon but OH is going in on Monday morning to talk to them.

We don't actually know many of the details as this is the first post we've had at this address. Anything received by OH at his old address is unknown so could be anything! Nothing in ten months though.

The debt £1184 which includes some rubbish the bailiff has added on. £24.50 just to come out and stick a letter in the door when we've had nothing else recently! It's Ross & Roberts - have read alot of horror stories about them online.. including them charging a single mum on benefits £150 a month! Scared witless now.

Do we DEFINITELY not have to pay anything upfront to start a payment plan? OH is planning on offering the council £50 upfront then x amount a week after, we really need to spend some out of this £90 for food and electric. I've had a sandwich since yesterday morning and lost 5lbs since Tuesday last week trying to get this money together for the bailiff

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

We really don't want bailiffs out to the house which is why OH has tried sorting this out over the phone to HO and bailiff but they're having none of it.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

A Ross & Roberts bailiff had their certificate discharged (revoked) by a court without a hearing for besieging a seriously-ill persons home for over five, yes, five hours, lying to the police about their powers and claiming to be a Court Bailiff when, in fact, they were only a Certificated Bailiff and allowing a person who was not certificated to levy distress to attempt to levy distress unsupervised, last year, 2012.

If Ross & Roberts are being unco-operative, make payments direct to the council, as recommended by Ploddertom, allowing for any legitimate fees due to Ross & Roberts which, at present, is £24.50. If you have the means to do so, record any verbal statements made by the bailiff and Ross & Roberts HO and, if you have a video-enabled mobile phone, record them making tits of themselves if they turn up. That could be very valuable evidence if you need to complain to the council, LGO or law enforcement agencies.

Above all - DO NOT let the bailiffs into your home and DO NOT feel intimidated by them. They will huff and puff, threaten you with the Kraken, etc., but there is little they can do without a court order signed in ink by a judge. If you have a car, move it to where the bailiffs cannot lay their grubby hands on it. Deny them a levy and they are stuffed.

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

The big two questions.. should the council take the debt back or whatever it is and let us pay them directly with no bailiffs.. and what are the chances they actually will?

[ploddertom]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

The big two questions.. should the council take the debt back or whatever it is and let us pay them directly with no bailiffs.. and what are the chances they actually will?

The usuall response from the Council is that there is nothing they can do & you must deal with the Bailiff. That is why it is important to claim your vulneerability issues. You should also over the weekend contact your local Councillor(s) and ask them to intervene - details usually from Council website - best done by phone.

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

Will get onto that in the morning, so rubbish that things that need sorting out happen as a weekend starts! Good to know there's still something that we can do, would hate to it around for two days twiddling our thumbs until Monday morning!

You've both been so helpful, thankyou. Does OH definitely not have to pay this £150 upfront? HO and bailiff won't discuss anything past paying it. Just incase the council won't stop the bailiffs.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

If you make direct payments via their automated payment service, there is little they or R & R can do about it. The council cannot refuse payments as this would put them in breach of the law. If, as suspected, you and your OH are both classed as vulnerable, the council should, in theory, recall the debt. However, as R & R are involved, it is likely that a private-sector company named Capita, which owns R & R and another bailiff company named Equita, runs the back office at your council will be involved and are known to be as awkward as possible. However, paying by internet or telephone banking, council website or telephone automated payment service will build up a payment history and make it difficult for the council, Capita or R & R to bully you.

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

Brilliant, thankyou! Can breathe almost easy.. off to the shop before it shuts to get some FOOD!

Will let you know how it goes, can't tell you how much this advice has meant.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

When you speak to the Council ask if you are speaking to a bona fide Council employee or someone of a private company as BB says. If it is a private company then ask to speak to someone else - Head of Revenues perhaps. Whoever it is explain your issues to them and if you get the usual response as stated previously advise them that the Bailiff is insisting on money up front to arrange a payment proposal and a visit to levy on goods, tell them this therefore does not help pay what you owe but instead allows the Bailiff to gain a financial advantage for himself & his company.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

should the council take the debt back

It should never have gone to Woss and Woberts - the council should have sought an attachment to benefits order.

Are you getting CT Benefit and, if not, why not?

[beckyt]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

It should never have gone to Woss and Woberts - the council should have sought an attachment to benefits order.

Are you getting CT Benefit and, if not, why not?

Yes, we get full council tax benefit.

Would they have to have written and needed a response to take it from benefits? If so, they might've done before we lived here. I still don't understand how it's nothing for months then all of a sudden a bailiff turns up. Ugh.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax bailiffs help!!

Hold on... if you're getting full CT Benefit, why are Robbers and Cobblers involved?