Is this right?

[SnoogyWoo]

Hi Guys, I pay my council tax monthly and the final payment of £185 for 2012/2013 was due in January. I changed banks so the DD got cancelled and thinking that council tax ran from April to April I would be OK paying the £185 when I got paid this month.

Just received a letter saying I am due in court on the 7th March and I need to pay £285 now!!

Is this right? I cannot really afford the extra £100 on top, anyway of getting out of that and just paying the £185?

Cant believe how quick they reacted!

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Is this right?

bump

[Guest]

Re: Is this right?

I don't, know but these are the official rules, if you haven't seen them.
If the council haven't followed them, maybe you should contact them to point out the error.

[SnoogyWoo]

Re: Is this right?

Thanks, don't remember getting a final notice. Probably nothing I can do.

[ploddertom]

Re: Is this right?

Regulation 34 of the CT Regs has amongst other bits:

(5) If, after a summons has been issued in accordance with paragraph (2) but before the application is heard, there is paid or tendered to the authority an amount equal to the aggregate of—
(a)the sum specified in the summons as the sum outstanding or so much of it as remains outstanding (as the case may be); and
(b)a sum of an amount equal to the costs reasonably incurred by the authority in connection with the application up to the time of the payment or tender,

The question has to be is the extra £100 reasonably incurred considering all they have done is listed you with several hundred others.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Is this right?

It's right what Ploddertom says.

If you're only one of 2,500 on the court list (feasible) then you have to question whether quarter of a £million has been reasonably incurred by the council for what is largely an automated process of sending documents through the post and 2 hours of staff time at the Magistrates' court on the day of the hearing.

This is very much testing the water, but in circumstances similar to you I paid my outstanding council tax after receiving a summons (plus what I considered reasonable costs – £10). However, the council claimed its costs were reasonable at £70 so a shortfall of £60. The authority has still made no decision regarding further action to enforce this. The liability order was obtained on 2nd November 2012. This is only a possible option and no way am I advising you do this.

For a much less hassled approach it might be worth enquiring with your council if they offer any concessions like waiving summons costs for agreeing to pay by Direct Debit for example. I take it you're not doing this now because you changed banks.

Which council is it?

[SnoogyWoo]

Re: Is this right?

East Riding Council. I fully intend to go back on DD in April for 2013/2014.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Is this right?

I had a quick look to see if East Riding Council had any debt recovery policy available on the web. Didn't find anything but doesn't mean there isn't one.

For some bizarre reason this Grimsby Telegraph article appears on the "This is Hull and East Riding" website. This will relate to North East Lincolnshire Council but one would assume it may possibly apply to Hull City and East Riding council too. Or, a complete mistake by Northcliffe Media Ltd for publishing it on the wrong website.

How the arrears are recovered

Reminder issued – customers have the opportunity to bring accounts up to date and carry on with instalments.

Final notice issued – the council gives the opportunity to bring the account up to date and continue with installments if the customer agrees to a direct debit.

Summons issued – arrangements for repayment are again offered to customers.

Liability order granted by magistrates' court – a letter is sent to the customer advising that the order has been granted and that they need to contact the council within 14 days to avoid the case being passed to bailiffs.

On contact from the customer, the council will consider a payment arrangement, taking into consideration individual circumstances.

For those customers who do not contact the council, the account will be sent to the bailiffs for collection.

[jon1965]

Re: Is this right?

May sound simple but have you called them to explain and ask if you can pay the £185 now.That's one hell of a council tax bill, or am I just poor?

[labman]

Re: Is this right?

I agree with Jon here. It is quite unusual for a council not to accept a payment (especially the final one) as part of an agreed payment plan. If you explain the circumstances and pay the £185 (possibly pay it online as council's front line staff are not known for being helpful over CT arrears), they may just waive the extra charge.

I'd certainly write to the CEO complaining about it if they refuse - you may, or may not get somewhere, but it won't harm.

[Guest]

Re: Is this right?

May sound simple but have you called them to explain and ask if you can pay the £185 now.

I agree

[Guest]

Re: Is this right?

Thanks, don't remember getting a final notice. Probably nothing I can do.

Just pay £185, and point out, in writing, that you had no final notice.
Easiest to do this online, as labman says.
They can't get you. It's been too quick, I'm guessing.

It's over!

[outlawlgo]

Re: Is this right?

This is the time scale for sending a summons, according to S.I 1992/613

Regulation 23(3) of the council tax regs states a statutory time limit of only 14 days from sending a reminder to demanding the entire outstanding council tax for that year.

(3) If, within the period of 7 days beginning with the day on which a reminder notice is issued, the liable person fails to pay any instalments which are or will become due before the expiry of that period, the unpaid balance of the estimated amount shall become payable by him at the expiry of a further period of 7 days beginning with the day of the failure.

After which Regulation 34(1) allows the council to apply to a magistrates' court for an order against the person by whom it is payable.

It's worth noting the exact wording of Regulation 34(1) however, as the billing authority has discretion as to whether it applies to the court, so is not required by law:

Application for liability order

34.—(1) If an amount which has fallen due under regulation 23(3) or (4) is wholly or partly unpaid, or (in a case where a final notice is required under regulation 33) the amount stated in the final notice is wholly or partly unpaid at the expiry of the period of 7 days beginning with the day on which the notice was issued, the billing authority may, in accordance with paragraph (2), apply to a magistrates' court for an order against the person by whom it is payable.

It would be reasonable to argue that the authority failed to use its discretion appropriately as you had paid 90% of your council tax liability already and was unlikely you were going to default at such a late stage.

[outlawlgo]

Re: Is this right?

....They can't get you. It's been too quick, I'm guessing.....

I think you're right.

We need some information surrounding dates of reminders, summons etc., to establish whether or not it is likely the council have followed the legally required steps in the application.

• Which day was your Direct Debit payment due, i.e., 5th, 15th or 25th?
• When was the reminder sent?
• When was the summons sent? – the council have to apply to the Magistrates' court for this (how quickly can they do this, if they have?)

INFORMATION FOR REFERENCE

On East Riding Council's website:

Can I set up a direct debit to pay my council tax?

Yes, this is the most convenient method of payment, and by choosing to pay by direct debit, you can chose to pay on the 5th, 15th or 25th of the month.

An East Riding Council News article appearing on "this is Hull and East Riding's" website:

A council spokesman said: "Most council tax bills are payable over ten monthly instalments, the first being due in April, and we require that each monthly instalment is received on or before the due dates shown on the council tax bill.

"If an instalment remains unpaid a reminder will be issued and the amount in question must be paid within seven days

"If the instalment remains unpaid after a further seven days, a magistrates' court summons may be issued and costs will be incurred.....

[ploddertom]

Re: Is this right?

It would be reasonable to argue that the authority failed to use its discretion appropriately as you had paid 90% of your council tax liability already and was unlikely you were going to default at such a late stage.

But if they did that they wouldn't be able to charge their "fee" for applying.