Re: Council business rates

[sueham]

I am new on this site and hope it is a god send that i found it.
Not sure if anyone can help, but i have two major problems with this council both over the rates.

I surrendered my lease on the shop as the tenants upstairs kept flooding us out and we were running a mens hire shop and were losing business due to the flooding as it was making a lot of the suits wet (landlord said there was nothing he could do about and to move our stock to another place even though there was nowhere else to put it). The landlord has said that he did not accept the surrender but he never took us to court and did not return our 6 months deposit. We left the shop at the end of October last year and told the council who advised us to get a surrender letter done and sent to the landlord. We done this and sent a copy to the council who then said that NO business rates were outstanding and now it was the landlord to pay.
Then i received a bill from the council in my personel name and they said that as the business was now shut i was liable to pay the business rates as the lease was in my name and not the shops. I have been arguing ever since and also stated that the landlord had put in for PLANNING PERMISSION to change the shopfront to include another doorway for the flat upstairs and also to put in a staircase for the flat. None of these things were ever there so it would have meant that the landlord was now making our shop smaller which if that was the case and the planning permission was granted then he must have accepted the surrender. No the council said that he was allowed to do repairs. Sorry but major works are not minior if they need planning permission.
They have proceeded to issue a court summons for the business rates in my name.

The next is our other shop which was over the road. We surrendered the lease and the landlord took us to court on a statuory demand for rent outstanding. The court threw the case out and said NO RENT WAS OWED BY US. Next thing is i receive another court summons from the same council for the business rates on this shop. I have explained that the landlord lost the case and could forward the court papers to prove, but they went ahead with the court case and never bothered replying to email also that the lease was not in my name and has never been, it is in my husbands name.

Now what do i do as this is making me ill and the total outstanding is £3000 for both shops.
I have explained that my husband is an OAP and receives just his pension and we both live off of that. Also that i do not own anything including the house we live in as this is only in my husbands name.
I really believe that i don't owe this money but i am banging my head on a brick wall with this council as they never reply or if they do they leave it until after they have issued a court summons.

Can anyone advise me what else i can do. I don't want to be hiding for ever when the bailiffs comes and i have tried every way i can to make the council see that i don't owe them anything, but they just don't listen.

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

Please please can someone help me i am going out of my mind with worry over this. never had bailiffs in my life and just don't know how to cope with something like this.

[Sapphire]

Re: Council business rates

Please stay calm someone will be along who can help.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council business rates

Your post is confusing. Is it possible you can add some sort of timeline to what happened. Also if you suurendered your lease voluntarily the chances are you will be held liable both for any rent or other bills to the scheduled end of tenancy. It may be easier to have a differnt thread for your other shop to try & distinguish between the two.

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

Ok was a bit of a ramble. So i will start at the begining.
The first shop we had leaks which was continue from the start of the lease. We asked the Landlord to try and sort the leaks out. There was 3 different places and all were coming from the tenants above flats, which he also owned. The landlord said that he could not find the leaks and we would have to move our stock to a different place. This problem had been going on for over 10 months we had a 5 year lease. On taking advice we were advised that the landlord was in breech of his covants on the head lease. Which meant as he had not fixed the leaks after 10 months and we had given a reseasonable time for the leaks to be fixed we were able to surrender the lease. As i said we advised the council who advised us to do the letter of surrender and send the landlord one and a copy to them. Which we did. Landlord did not corresspond and we heard nothing from him until i asked for our deposit back. His solicitor emailed me and stated that landlord was keeping the deposit for rent. No mention of court or us breaking the lease. In fact it seemed as though the landlord was not bothered at all. Then the council kept sending bills for the rates and when i told them that the business was shut in these premises they then put bills in my name and sent them to my home address. I have stated to them that landlord had acepted the surrender as he had put in planning permission to have a new enterance made at the front of the shop and also insert a completly new staircase through the shop upto the flat above. All old enterances are at the back of shop and was independant of the shop. By putting this new door and staircase into the shop it would have made the shop smaller and meant that we could not operate the business anyway. The council have stated that landlord would have been intitled to do repairs, but these were major repairs so on this i believe that his had to accept the surrender of the lease to do this. I have been fighting council ever since. I believe that the landlord accepted the surrender in October 2011 and not July 2012 as he is stating and so are the council. I hope this is making sense now.

Across the road from the above shop i also run a bridal business which through ill health with my business partner i had to ask the landlord about surrender of this shop. It seemed that it was accepted in December 2011 and keys were sent back in December but then i received a reminder about the rent due at the end of December. To cut a long story short this landlord took us to court on a Statory Demand for outstanding rent. We won this case and we have not heard anything from this landlord after the court case. Again we told the council that we had shut the business. Now they have taken me to court for the business rates for Jan 2012-March-2012 and then April 2012-July 2012. But my argument is that i am not the lease holder on this shop as my husband signed the lease so really i feel they should not have taken me to court but my husband. I have told them in several emails that the court papers can be sent to them and that also i am not the lease holder. But they either don't bother replying to emails or wait until the court case is over and then reply. I have offered them £10 per week as neither me or my husband work. They have turned the amount down even though they know that we live off of my husbands pension. I do feel that i have tried everything to sort this out and have about 20 emails to the council to try and sort it out. I am sorry if this is so long but it is a big problem for us living in fear of the bailiffs and trying to get on with out lives. What should i do.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council business rates

It would seem that the Council may have been trying to get the Landlord to cough for the rates and he in turn has produced the Tenancy Agreement showing you to be responsible. It possibly depends on how your Council treats empty properties - some allow 100% reduction whereas others may charge the full amount. I think you will need to go back to the Council and ask:
1 - how they treat empty properties
2 - how they treat a business that has ceased trading

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

hi they have given me 3 months free on both shops which i suppose i should b grateful for. But my main worry is would the landlord be able to alter the shop while we are suppose to be in the lease. If he can then this would have made the shop smaller which is not what the lease was all about. Also they said that as the business had ceased trading it was now down to me to pay the rates until the 27th July 2012 which is when the landlord has said that he accepted the surrender. So they have billed me until then. I have offered a payment but they have refussed it stating they wanted more and this reply came after they took me to court.

The other shop they have also billed me for until th 27th July 2012 but it is a different landlord so could not understand why they have the same date of accepting the surrender as the other shop. i know a bit confussing but i am so worried over it all as i thought all this had been dealt with. I have accepted that maybe they will make me bankrupt as i have nothing of value as it is all my husbands who i have recently married.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council business rates

hi they have given me 3 months free on both shops which i suppose i should b grateful for. But my main worry is would the landlord be able to alter the shop while we are suppose to be in the lease. If he can then this would have made the shop smaller which is not what the lease was all about. I would treat this as a separate issue altogether. Also they said that as the business had ceased trading it was now down to me to pay the rates until the 27th July 2012 which is when the landlord has said that he accepted the surrender. So they have billed me until then. I have offered a payment but they have refussed it stating they wanted more and this reply came after they took me to court. Best way to pay is via online banking, Council website or automated phone, that way you are in control of what you can afford to pay regardless of anything they say. When you say they refused payment was this a proposal or an actual payment?

The other shop they have also billed me for until th 27th July 2012 but it is a different landlord so could not understand why they have the same date of accepting the surrender as the other shop. i know a bit confussing but i am so worried over it all as i thought all this had been dealt with. I have accepted that maybe they will make me bankrupt as i have nothing of value as it is all my husbands who i have recently married.

Under what status did you trade - Ltd, Sole Trader etc?

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

Both shops were LTD and i had pointed this out to the council but they say as both shops (businesses) have ceased trading it is now down to me to pay the rates. I thought that if you were a LTD company then this would not happen. I was right upto date with the business rates when we left both shops, so nothing was outstanding as far as i was told by the council. But it seems that they can put it into your personal name once you have left. What is the point of trading as a LTD company if this happens. I signed the lease for one shop and my husband signed the other.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council business rates

Have your businesses been wound up/liquidated? here's the relevant legislation http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/18/made

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

Yes the business has been wound up the accountant said that they could only do this at the end of the year accounts for 2011-2012. There were no outstanding bills to any of our creditors.
I have paid £10 up to now and will pay £10 everyweek as that is what i proposed to the council and it is all that i can afford to pay and i believe that this is why they refussed at the time.

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

I have been sent the liabilty order which don't show who they are for no amounts and no court stamp. Also they sent me the sums and dates but these show no discounts( which they state they have applied, but these orders were done before they gave the empty shop discount as they have only just done the discounts) and they also show the dates beyound when they say the landlord accepted the surrender. Surely if these amounts are wrong it would make the liability orders void. Can anyone advise me on this.

[sueham]

Re: Council business rates

I have since found out that Merton Council have a liablity order on myself for one of the shops until March 31st 2013 but after checking with valuation office it seems that NO rates are due from 25th July 2012 as the landlord is doing major structual works on the shop and flats above so no rates are due until the work is completed. Now please tell me if i am right in saying that what the council are doing by trying to charge me after the surrender was accepted and in an email stating that i am not liable after 25th July 2012 is fraud by having a liablity order that is not correct or truthfull in the dates and amounts. Can i ask for this to be withdrawn.