Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

[tcherokee]

Hello,

This is my first post and it might be a bit lengthy as I want to get all the facts out there so please bear with me.

In 2010, due to some personal problems, I missed my council tax payments it got sent over to the bailiffs. It was my bad, and I am not making any excuses for that.

After it got to the bailiffs, I wrote to the council asking them to take it back, they refused. I then contacted the bailiffs to try and arrange a payment plan and was told that they were only going to accept the payment in full or they will come over and seize my property. Unfortunately, i couldn't pay in full £964 in one go, so instead, I started paying in instalments directly to the council using the online council tax payment system and I was able to finish paying the intital outstanding debt in three instalments and within four months. After paying the outstanding debt. I contacted the council and I was told that while the amount I was owed had been paid, there were still fees from the bailiffs outstanding.

I wrote to the bailiffs informing them I had paid directly to the council and was made aware I still owed bailiff charges and they should provide me with a breakdown of the charges I owed so I could pay it. I also asked for details about the bailiff who had come to the house, his name and certification detail. I got a reply about three months later with his name and certification, but no breakdown of charges. After the letter, I came home the next day to find my car clamped. I contacted the Bailiffs again letting them know that they were yet to provide me with the charges breakdown I had requested and that I was not refusing to pay it, I just wanted to know what I was paying for. I did not get a reply and about two weeks later, I came home to find that the bailiffs had taken my car to sell at an auction.


I then called the bailiffs to protest that I had never at anytime refused to pay (this was clearly stated in my two letters to them) and I still did not have a breakdown of what the costs were with regards to the account, they said there was nothing they could do about that and that they had replied my letter for a breakdown. I pointed out that the letter they sent me answered all my other questions apart from a charges breakdown and they replied that they would get back to me.

Days later, I got a polite email from them saying that their fees were in accordance to the law and basically that was that and about a week after that, I got another letter telling me my car had been sold and I now owed a little over £1300. This is after selling a car that was worth about £2000.

After that I sent a formal complaint letter to the council and I after my complaint, the council provided me with a breakdown of charges.

12^th Feb 2010 – levy fee of £53 and attendance to remove of £200.
24^th Sept 2010 - £500 for cutting off a clamp.

I then raised another complaint onver

1. Despite the Bailiff not providing me with a breakdown of charges I requested, they continued to apply charges and enforce the account which i believed went against s77.6 of the Consumer Act.
2. Charging me a clamp removal fee of £500 which I knew nothing about. I didn’t get any letter about it, it wasn’t reported to the police, in fact had the council not provided me with a breakdown, i would have never known about it.
3. The bailiff cannot charge a levy fee and an attendance to remove on the same day as it does not give the debtor any time to respond to the levy.

After the complaints process, the council rescinded the £500 clamp removal fee as they found it invalid. With regards to the remaing two issues I raised, the council states that

The bailiffs are allowed to charge an attendance to remove and levy on the same day and that schedule 5 of the fee structure, does not stipulate that there should be a time frame between levying and attendance to remove.

They are also saying that a response was sent to my letter so they do not consider that the account should have been in dispute (even though it did not provide me with a breakdown of charges) and that section 77.6 of the consumer credit act is not applicable to the collection of council tax as that falls under a different piece of legislation.

In an effort to avoid a court case, the council has offered a settlement of £650, which will clear the outstanding balance I owe and leave me with about £200 in credit.

I do not want to accept this offer as I feel the bailiffs are in the wrong in this case and the settlement will go nowhere near replacing my car. They actually said in one of their replies that they did not believe that had they provided me with a breakdown, it would have prevented the matter from escalating this far. I find that claim completely ridiculous and I feel they deliberately mismanaged my account to be able to wring the most money they could from me.

I would really like to take this issue to court, but based on the information I provided, I would like to know, realistically, what my chances are. And also... how do I go about taking this to the small claims court?
Apologies for the lengthy post and let me know if you need any more details or if any section needs further clarification.

[IanM]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

I have written about this subject on a thread called CT and multiple accounts, you may want to have a read and see if any of my points are relevant to your case.

I think you should take a step back for a moment and look at the fundamental reason for all your problems.

I'm assuming that as you have CT arrears you are a working person being unable to pay your CT in one payment so you offered to pay by installments which were unacceptable to the council.

As you are in arrears the council would have issued a summons to the magistrates for non-payment and obtained a liability order against you for the outstanding amount.

This is where the waters get murky because when the council are in possession of a liability order they have the ability to obtain an attachment of earnings order which can be sent to your employer to deduct payments for your CT until the order is paid in full so you should really be asking the council:-

What date was the summons issued?
What date did they obtain a liability order?
Why did they refer the debt to the bailiffs when they could have obtained an attachment of earnings order within a month of obtaining the liability order that would have gained them payments from the earliest possible date?

I am starting to think that people that have had liability orders for non-payment of CT that have been sent to the bailiffs, potentially have a claim against the council for all the fees and charges over the amount of the liability order if their is proof that they unnecessarily incurred costs by not requesting an attachment of earnings order at the earliest opportunity.

Please gather all your paperwork and report your case to the LGO, and take independent legal advice regarding claiming against the council for all your costs incurred since the council referred your account to the bailiffs instead of placing an attachment of earnings order with your employer.

Let us know what you decide to do and any results you achieve, thanks.

[tcherokee]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

Thanks Ian for your reply, there are some similarities between the circumstances, but not enough that I can just follow yours. It is quite interesting that they could get payments directly from my employers rather than tasking the bailiffs, although I think for them bailiffs would have been easier as the bailiffs used where the council's own bailiff servce. An attachment of earnings never came up in my case and until I read your post, I had no idea what it means.

Thanks

[IanM]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

tcherokee, i have just been reading The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, particularly part VI Enforcement.

This section covers liability orders and attachment of earnings orders, i cannot seem to find anything that says after obtaining a liability order the council can instruct bailiffs to collect the debt, it does however explain how they are allowed to place an attachment of earnings orders with your employer for payment.

That says to me there is something corrupt about the way the bailiffs are referred an account in arrears.

Have a read through my other posts and you will understand the attachment of earnings order, basically when your account goes into arrears the council issue a summons, obtain a liability order which entitles them to place an attachment of earnings order with your employer so the arrears are deducted from your wage and then the employer pays it to the council.

I can't find anything, so far, that says summons, liability order, bailiffs, attachment of earnings order.....what i can find though is summons, liability order, attachment of earnings order......definitely worth further investigation.

Seems the council may be in breach of theses regulations, whether that is for legal or illegal reasons is what needs investigating.

[IanM]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

tcherokee, something you may want to investigate with regards to your car:-

Distress45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.
(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—
(a)an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and
(b)a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.
(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.
(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.
(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.
(6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales.
(7) A distress shall not be deemed unlawful on account of any defect or want of form in the liability order, and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser on that account; and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser from the beginning on account of any subsequent irregularity in making the distress, but a person sustaining special damage by reason of the subsequent irregularity may recover full satisfaction for the special damage (and no more) by proceedings in trespass or otherwise.
(8) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect the operation of any enactment which protects goods of any class from distress.
(9) Nothing in the Distress (Costs) Act 1817(1), as extended by the Distress (Costs) Act 1827(2), (which makes provision as to the costs and expenses of the levying of certain distresses) shall apply to a distress under this regulation.

[IanM]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

And another one:-

Appeals in connection with distress46.—(1) A person aggrieved by the levy of, or an attempt to levy, a distress may appeal to a magistrates' court.
(2) The appeal shall be instituted by making complaint to a justice of the peace, and requesting the issue of a summons directed to the authority which levied or attempted to levy the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter by which the person is aggrieved.
(3) If the court is satisfied that a levy was irregular, it may order the goods distrained to be discharged if they are in the possession of the authority; and it may by order award compensation in respect of any goods distrained and sold of an amount equal to the amount which, in the opinion of the court, would be awarded by way of special damages in respect of the goods if proceedings were brought in trespass or otherwise in connection with the irregularity under regulation 45(7).
(4) If the court is satisfied that an attempted levy was irregular, it may by order require the authority to desist from levying in the manner giving rise to the irregularity.


Same again, quote 'The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992', because it would appear that they have to make an attachment of earnings order to your employer before they are allowed to put an account into 'Distress' so they can instruct a bailiffs to levy your goods. If they have never applied for an attachment of earnings order then they have caused the account to be placed into 'Distress' themselves, which must be illegal in some way!

[tcherokee]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

Thanks Ian, for all the information, It has helped me make up my mind and I am going to be going to court over this issue.

Do you know what the process is for taking the council and their bailiffs to court? or where I can get more information on how to do it?

[IanM]

Re: Council Tax Issues, Problems with the Bailiffs

Thanks Ian, for all the information, It has helped me make up my mind and I am going to be going to court over this issue.

Do you know what the process is for taking the council and their bailiffs to court? or where I can get more information on how to do it?

Good for you! I don't know what the process is for taking the council to court, i think you have to write to them first setting out what you are claiming against them for, how much you are claiming, and the reasons for making the claim(breach of collection process), maybe the county court can advise you how to submit a claim and provide you with a small claims pack. That will tell you how to submit a claim, depending on how much you are claiming, the court fees vary, the more you claim the higher the court fee.

Take some advice from the court and maybe a solicitor at a free legal clinic, some solicitors offer this service on a Saturday morning, the advice you need from the solicitor is with regards to the legal process and if the council have acted in the correct way to collect the debt. Basically, do they have to follow the sequence of the regulations to collect an account in arrears?

When(or if) you go to court, remember the whole process you have had to follow to bring your claim to the county court(i.e. complete steps 1-7 on the claim form) and then ask the judge, "if i had avoided filling in step 3 or 4 of the claims form because it was quicker, easier, or cheaper to sidestep those points, would you be hearing this case right now?

Obviously the judge will reply that he wouldn't hear the case or rule on it because any ruling he makes would then be open to appeal due to the claim process not being followed correctly, so then ask, "why is the council is allowed to sidestep the AEO part of the Regulations and burden you with further unaffordable costs by going to the bailiffs before obtaining an AEO?

The council will then have to prove to the judge that they followed the rules and didn't break them for their convenience.

No idea what his response will be but i would love to be there if you use that argument.

Please let us what you can find out, thanks.