council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

RESPONSE FROM THE COUNCIL AS TO MY COMPLAINT

Dear Mr

Further to your complaint, I would respond to the three questions you have asked as follows.

1. Council Tax liability is governed by the Local Government Finance Act 1992 and the Council Tax [Adminsitration and Enforcement] Regulations 1992. The basis of Council Tax is that 50% of the charge is due to the property and 25% for each of the first two occupants in that property. Therefore, subject to certain criteria being applied, a single person may be liable for a 25% reduction in their Council Tax.

Regulation 14 of the Council Tax {Edministration and Enforcement] Regulations require Billing Authorities to undertake reasonable steps to ensure that entitlement to a discount is correct. Futhermore, there is a requirement to ensure discounts continue to be correctly claimed. If for any reason, the Billing Authority believes there is no further entitlement to the discount, it can be removed and an adjustment notice sent.

2. The discount can be awarded if the Billing Authority believes there is an entitlement to that discount. If the Billing Authority believes the discount is no longer due, it can be removed. If you disagree with that decision, the proper right of appeal is to the Valuation Tribunal Service.

3. Under Regulation 3 of the Council Tax [Administration and Enforcement] Regulations 1992, a person is required to provide information if requested in writing by the Billing Authority.This relates to information regarding liability. Personal details such as phone numbers and email addresses are requested to speed the process of making further enquires should they be necessary. Many customers are happy to provide the requested information on this basis. If the Billing Authority has additional information which causes it to believe that entitlment to a discount no longer exists, it may remove the discount.

XXXX Council is not the first local authority to utilise an outside company to undertake a single person discount review. The process agreed with Capita is no different to the many others they have undertaken and is entirely legal.

If you believe you are entitled to receive the 25% single person discount, please return the form to Capita as requested.
Yours sincerely


i have confirmed that their is no statutory obligation for the council to carry out a single persons occupancy review
i have cofirmed i do not have to give my telephone number,email address

so i ask the question again

by what statutory right has the council got in removing the 25 % single persons occupancy rebate, which is an entitlement under statute legislation if i do not return this form to capita

what is stopping me sending a statutory declaration (affi davit) direct to the council if i wish

my only obligation is to inform the council on any change in circumstances, that is all

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

just bumping this for advice as i need to sort this out this weekend

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

well , well

the saga continues, this morning i receive a new council tax bill, minus the 25 % single persons discount

now remember, i have informed the council direct allready of my entitlement to the 25 % discount, the council by way of capita requested this data for which i obliged. i told capita that i refuse to deal with them or give them any info being a commercial company and will deal with the council direct

as to Regulation 3 of the Council Tax [Administration and Enforcement] Regulations 1992, i have informed the council of my entitlement to the single persons discount direct

i phoned capita and they said i have to deal with them as they are the councils agents.

now their is no statutory obligation for the council to do this single persons discount review, or me to comply with the councils stance that i have to deal with capita

i will continue to pay my council tax for the rest of the year minus the 25 % discount

comments people as i can see me getting a liability order summons next for which i am eager to argue this out in front of a magistrate and the council as the council will be claming for sums not due

[outlawlgo]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

If you end up going to a council tax Liability Order hearing, some representative from your council will intervene and either prevent you or do their best to prevent you from appearing in front of Magistrates in the courtroom, so you'll need to stand your ground and point out that you have been summoned to appear before Magistrates, not the council etc. First couple of posts here.....

I don't know if this will be any advantage, but it might be worth printing all relevant details about your case and sending it off to the court once you get the date of the court hearing. That way, if the Magistrates refuses to take your evidence into account, at least they will hold documentary evidence which may be to your advantage later.

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

as i have kicked up such a fuss with the council over what authority under the council tax enforcement regulations,
(they have no evidence that i am not entitled) and by what authority crapita has in removing the discount

crapita will be calling me today at midday for a manual review.

i had to give them my phone number which i will take up later (data farming) .i will be doing a formal letter of complaint to the council demanding under what statutory obligation they can remove my discount etc

i will update after they call later

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

well then, crapita has just phoned and usual questions
council tax single persons discout has been allocated back into my council tax account

i have demanded from capita, who authorised the removel of the discount (not the council) as i did not return the forms to capita, but did a statutory declaration to the council

by what statutory authority are they able to remove the discount when the 25 % discount is a statutory right

the only time the discount can be removed is if the council have evidence in their possession that fraud is being committed

you just cant judge somebody might be guilty of an offence and remove the discount for failure to return some forms, by the way their is no statutory requirement for the council to do the single persons review

my contract is with the billing authority, not an outside commercial entity (capita) and their is no statutory legislation that states i must deal with capita and not the billing authority direct

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

It sounds as if this Council's procedures contravene Article 6 of the Human rights Act - right to a fair hearing - as there is a presumption of guilt and you have to disprove the removal of the discount. Reversing the burden of proof between a citizen and the state contravenes article 6.

I would ask your MP to refer this council's procedures to the Ombudsman.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

well then
i received this from the council today
i draw your atention to this statement

IF YOU DO NOT CONTACT US WITHIN 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER WE WILL ASSUME YOU ARE NO LONGERT LIVING ALONE AND THE DISCOUNT WILL BE REMOVED

for a start, the 25 % discount is statutory, they have no authority to remove it if i do not respond

when i started paying my community charge, i made a declaration that i was a single person occupancy so why do i need to respond to that letter as there is no specific statutory obligation to carry out a single person discount review,

so what authority has that piece of bog roll got over me to comply

i have made my statement once as required as a single person occupancy

comments please

There are data protection and other public law issues here, but they are not as you see them.

Checking Bromley's web site I find some misinformation on it. It lists disregard categories as different discounts, a piece of confusing nonsense with no basis whatseover in council tax discount law

http://www.bromley.gov.uk/downloads/...l_tax-discount

By law the council tax leaflet should contain an explanation of your duties and of the basis on which the discount has been deducted.

http://www.bromley.gov.uk/downloads/...leaflet_201213

This leaflet is misleading in that it says you must inform the council of any change in circumstances that 'affects' your discount when the law does not require you to tell the council about any change in circumstances at all. However you must tell the council if you realise you should not have as much discount or if you are not now entitled to any discount at all. This is common sense in line with the law on fraud and theft!


The fact of the matter is that the Local Government Finance Act contains no such discount as a 'sole occupancy discount' or a 'single person discount'. The nickname single person discount arose because entitlement to a discount of what the law terms 'the appropriate amount' arises on any day when a dwelling has just one resident who has their sole or main residence at the address and who does not 'fall to be disregarded'.

You are quite right that if the council cancels a discount when you are entitled to one you can appeal, first to the council, and then to a valuation tribunal. If you look for the Valuation Tribunal Newsletter on line you will find a short report on a case where a council which cancelled a discount because of data mining activities by Experian and council staff actions was called 'perverse' by the Tribunal and the decision overturned.

A credit reference agency is entitled to use information it gets from banks and so on for crime prevention. In these exercises, they also use the full electoral register and they claim to be acting as a agent of the council in doing this. It is unlawful for the council to make use of the register or of information derived from it except for a statutory purpose related to law enforcement and crime prevention. By 'law enforcement' at least one barrister has stated that it must be enforcing the criminal and not merely civil law else the provision makes no sense at all.

Where the council is going wrong here is that it is not applying council tax discount law as it is written. This is a technical matter, but briefly, the records of the council could only show that you are receiving a discount on the basis that there is literally only one resident if it was acting in breach of Regulations 15 and 20. These, again, put briefly, require the council to issue your demand notice on the basis that the same rate and amount will apply on every day of the coming year. In telling you that its records say something different it is rendering itself liable to a complaint to the Local Government Ombusman as it has a duty to provide legally accurate information.

Councils may legally outsource some of their functions and usually claim that these 'reviews' are taking place under regulation 14, which is a duty to take reasonable steps once a year before sending out the bills to ascertain whether ANY discount (and there are many different ones) apply. If you don't think the way the council is acting is reasonable you could apply for a judicial review and if the council is providing you with distressing false information about the basis of entitlement to a discount of the appropriate amount (which appears to be the case from this letter) you can complain to the Local Government Ombudsman.

It has also been argued that certain legal provisions require them to take steps to ensure that the accounts of the council (which list discounts and so on) are free from fraud.

So this basically is what they are doing. The legal problems with such uses of the electoral register have been discussed over and over by various government departments and according to the Audit Commission which uses a similar method to target people as potential frauds and so on it is still a live issue legally. But none of that is any help to you.

Council staff will not yet be able to access any third party information as the credit reference agency will not be allowed to provide it

However, if the council perceives that you are being awkward, it may decide you are not being reasonable, and if it suspects you of fraud or wants information to assess any tax liability then it can ask Experian who else it thinks is living at your address and it may then carry out RIPA surveillance of your address to see if you have a live in partner.

This is an unholy mess, predicated on the existence of a 'discount' with no basis in law.

You probably should be asking your council why it has not complied with Regulation 15 (to judge from its letter) and why it is not making the assumption required by Regulation 20.

Here are some links to the relevant law.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1.../contents/made (see regs 15 and 20(3)(f)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/contents

See Section 6 (residence) Section 11 (the discount) and the administrative schedule

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2004/39.

THis is the law on sole or main residence, referred to in the tribunal case I mentioned earlier.

If you are no longer entitled to a discount of 25% by law you should inform the council as soon as you realise this and the council can (and in my view SHOULD) fine you for this failure. But the mere fact that you no longer lived alone would not in itself mean entitlement stopped. It would only stop if the other adult resident had their sole or main residence at your address and was not disregarded like students are.

Written in haste with apologies for typos. But I have put links to the law in so you can check it for yourself.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

Yes I would consider asking your MP to refer them but on the basis that they are not doing what the regs tell them to do and you are suffering detriment as a result.

Write to the ad hoc committee on the draft local audit bill too: that has data matching provisions in it of a very similar unhappy sort.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

You might have to go to a judicial review to challenge whether the steps taken to ascertain whether any discount applied were reasonable. You would have to go to a Tribunal to challenge the removal of your discount. That is how you get your statutory right. I would research CT discount law first.

You can expect them to turn up at the Tribunal with the name and address of the person they think has their sole or main residence at your address, which they can get from Capita.

You do not have a contract I don't think and councils may contract out functions to the private sector. the private sector (ie credit reference agencies) uses credit reference agency data to conform that some people are entitled to a discount which does not exist (ie a sole occupant discount) and to highlight hundreds of others as cases where a discount might not apply. This is why you were sent a review letter in all probability, precisely because they suspected that you might not live alone. Otherwise they would just have crossed you off the list.

When you ring them be careful, sometimes they use fraud detection in voice software and some upset people have been suspected of fraud because the machine thought their voice sounded nervous. I kid you not. Experian staff can be frankly abusive and my council who did a similar thing promised to look into the way this happened but probably never did as nothing more was heard of this as far as I know.

[miliitant]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

many thanks for your post

i am still awaiting a freedom of information request response from the ICO AND A RESPONSE FROM CAPITA ON THE REMOVEL OF THE SINGLE PERSONS DISCOUNT

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

A liability hearing might happen if they thought you were living with another person who was liable. For a list of liable adults, see the law. Liability is not about entitlement to a discount, it is about who has a duty to pay. If you are a freeholder resident you are a freeholder. People living as man and wife etc are jointly liable so they can demand payment off either one of you.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

You won't get one. He refuses to comment if this involves him having to know anything about council tax discount law.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

THis stuff about 25% for each of the two residents is absolute nonsense with no origin in law, so whever wrote this to you is not up to speed with the regulations. Council tax is based simply upon the band your house is in and the local rate.

An adjusted notice may only be sent part way through the year if it has proved that there is no longer any entitlement, but councils tend to interpret this loosely and since we can't afford judicial reviews and so on there is little point arguing about this.

Regulation 3 does not say what this person is apparently attempting to tell you that it says at first sight. But without a sight of the original review letter it isn't clear whether what point he is making.

The council can ask you to provide information needed to identify the person or person(s) who are liable and this includes any person the council thinks is liable (which ought to be a reasonable belief on the part of the council). It has no right for example to a complete list of residents as this isn't necessary to achieve the stated purpose.

No process which involves sending out review letter which misrepresent council tax discount law is 'legal' in public law the council should provide accurate information about your position in law. The point at which incorrect information amounts to harassment is an interesting one.

[Data Dolly]

Re: council tax single persons discount review/ experian/equifax???????

This is the age of privatisation, and in effect the council has outsourced some of its CT functions to Capita.

Councils which use Capita almost routinely misrepresent the facts of CT discount law on their web sites, application forms and so on.