Bailiff threatening letters

[suseywong]

Hi new to this so please forgive me!
Have received two bailiff letters last week threatening to remove goods 'with or without my presence'. Never heard from them before in my life. Debt apparently refers to Non Domestic Rates from 2009! If it's council tax for a shop I owned, I was still trading there 6 months after the 'Liability Order' was dated. I have NEVER seen a Liability Order nor have I been contacted by Council and when I closed the shop, I had paid my council tax up to the date I left, with the full agreement of the Council! Any advice please.

[Bill-K]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Hi suseywong, and welcome to you. I'm sure you will get a more learnéd response from other guys here later, but for the time being, I would suggest you do this.

Find whatever documentation you now have with respect to this matter. In particular, the confirmation from the Council that your Council Tax was paid up fully on the shop until the date you left. If you can't find that, then contact the Council and tell them what is happening and ask for their reasons for calling in the bailiffs.

Be polite and 'non-confrontational.' YOU are the victim here, it seems, and your conduct is important. Remain the victim, but seek as much info as you can.

It may well be that the shop was vacant for a while after you ceased usage, in which case the Council had no-one to collect the CT from, and VERY POSSIBLY, your name remained on the liability register. That would NOT surprise me. Subsequently, I suspect that numerous items of correspondence - including this Liability Order - were sent there. But, of course, you would not have received them yourself. Get a clear confirmation of when your tenancy/ownership ceased, methinks.

FWIW, that's my advice until the big guys get here - and we DO have them.....I can feel the ground vibrating with their footsteps already !!!

[suseywong]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Thanks for your info. Just to clarify, new owners took over the day I stopped trading and I informed Council (with new owners permission) of details for new CT. Have no paperwork, don't keep stuff that long. I did ring the Council and they wouldn't deal with me as the matter had been passed to bailiffs!

[labman]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Hi Suseywong,

Excellent advice there from Bill. The first step is definitely to find any proof you have that the NDR's were paid up to date. Have you no proof at all - bank statements etc... If you have that proof and the council were notified in writing that you had vacated the business premises, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. If you haven't, then it may be a good idea to send a SAR to the bank you had the business account with. This will give you all statements, and thus the proof you need.

That is not, unfortunately, to say you are necessarily going to have an easy ride, but as Bill said, look out the proof, then phone - make sure you ask for the Council Tax Collections Department as the 1st line people will refuse to help. Remain polite, but ask what Bill has suggested. If they insist you still owe the debt, then ask them to suspend all enforcement action from one month (they will probably agree to less than this) and post back up.

I am firmly of the belief it is best to resolve these things amicably with the council first, rather than go in all guns blazing with your complaint.

Is the shop that took over from you still there, or do you know any details of the owners? The council should have records of them paying NDR's from the date you say you left, which is further proof you weren't there. They can't charge two different people for the same premises.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

:beagle:

[Bill-K]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Cheers Labman - I thought it was your footsteps I detected !!!

It looks as though you haven't kept much in the way of paperwork for this, susie - so FWIW, I would suggest that you prepare yourself for playing 'the long game' with this. As Labman says - phone the right people, in order to get the immediate problems sorted or delayed.

But I think you should then insist that everything is conducted in writing. Even email is better than telephone convo's - but get hard copy written confirmation.

If the Council won't give you the info they are asking, then it seems to me that you should send them a DSAR, which will cost a tenner, but it obliges them to supply with all the info they hold on you. To my tiny mind, for them NOT to give you a reason why they called in the bailiffs is ludicrous. But STAY CALM and COLLECTED - and POLITE !!!

Further layman's thoughts on this, if I may. I would assume that the Liability Order would have been posted to the occupier/user of the business premises which you had previously vacated. In that case, it was delivered to the new business that took over, and therefore not served lawfully.

In the absence of any other records, if you can establish clearly WHEN this Order was issued and delivered, along with WHERE it was delivered to, then all you may need is clear confirmation of when your tenancy of the premises expired, methinks. Putting all those together will at least show that the Order was not lawfully served. Once you can establish that, then I feel you have started the dominoes falling. Just my 'umble opinion, though, of course.

[labman]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Absolutely Bill. As with the other bailiff post I was typing in a mad rush this morning to try to help both posters before I had to go out.

I still think one of the best pieces of evidence you have must be held by the council - the fact that the new business must have been sent a demant for NDR's and it is imossible for both of you to be paying for the same address. They must have a record of your payments stopping and the new business starting payments against this address.

[Guest]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Hi new to this so please forgive me!
Have received two bailiff letters last week threatening to remove goods 'with or without my presence'. Never heard from them before in my life. Debt apparently refers to Non Domestic Rates from 2009! If it's council tax for a shop I owned, I was still trading there 6 months after the 'Liability Order' was dated. I have NEVER seen a Liability Order nor have I been contacted by Council and when I closed the shop, I had paid my council tax up to the date I left, with the full agreement of the Council! Any advice please.

See point 2 : http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=32484


You need to telephone the council and find out if this is NDR or council tax.

If council tax then read this http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ad.php?t=32497


then make a formal complaint.

[HEAD OF REVENUES]
[NAME OF] Council
[ADDRESS & POSTCODE]

[DATE]

Dear sir.

FORMAL COMPLAINT

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

Re: Council tax [ACCOUNT NO.] & [amount AS SHOWN ON THE LIABILITY ORDER]

I make this formal complaint because I received bailiff from you on [DATE] collecting the aforementioned liability without having been sent a Final Notice or a Reminder to my home address as required by enforcement regulations.

To resolve this complaint:

1. Return the case to council administration.
2. The council makes the necessary investigation why no Final Notice or Reminder was send to the address the bailiff attended.
3. Quash the Liability Order under Section 82 of the Local Government Act 2003.

I will make the repayments for what I lawfully owe in afforable monthly instalmants of [AMOUNT] starting on [DATE].

If you are unable, or unwilling to resolve this complaint in full, please mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene.

Yours Sincerely.

[NAME]
Encs. copy of:
Bailiffs document.
1st instalament cheque.

Also, contact your local councillor and get him on side.

[suseywong]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Thanks all for your input. Sorry I've not replied sooner, PC gone haywire! Hopefully remedied now. Will let you know shortly any outcomes. Thanks again

[suseywong]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Deep joy! Just tried phoning and was put through to CT Recovery Dept (after hanging on phone for over 30 mins) It seems Recovery Dept is an answering service giving numerous options, one of which is to contact the bailiffs direct! Will attempt e-mail ad keep you informed.

[suseywong]

Re: Bailiff threatening letters

Hi all and thanks for your advice. Finally am getting somewhere! E-mailed dept and received no reply BUT next day received a letter from them for the amount outstanding. I rang and spoke to an officious woman who said that LO was sent Feb '09 to shop address. I remember receiving a letter but on reflection it must have been an LO. When I first took over the shop I paid no NDR as I was led to believe that it was included in my rent (stupid now I think about it!) The LO (what I thought was a letter) was issued and I rang and made arrangements to pay current year and previous year in instalments. I continued to do this until I sold shop and rang (same guy all the time) to inform him. He DID say to me that if I paid last month that I traded my account would be clear and I would hear nothing further. Have now spoken to him again and he obviously denies this and is looking for 6 monthly instalments of £100 to clear account. I am now on benefits and stated this and offered £5 per month which he refused. Matter is in abeyance till Weds 8th Feb when he is back at work. Now what? Am I still liable to pay as it was 'an arrangement' for the missed payments. Do I have to pay such a vast amount each month, which I cannot afford. Should they accept my offer. Do I go to court and put my case if they issue a summons. I don't want this hanging over me but I cannot afford the amount they are asking. Thanks for your patience. PS Am waiting copies of all correspondence including my termination letter and details of all payments made.