Council Tenancy Agreement?

[sam9002]

I have an assured shorthold Tenancy agreement,(attached), how ever my local council are not happy, what's new

I had 5 Tenants, 2 couples and 1 single person, who rented the house as one unit and were all a group of friends.

They each signed a copy of the Assured shorthold agreement , Each couple signed the agreement, and signed as a witness for the other couple member, I also signed as the landlord, and one of the Tenants was a witness to the individual member,together with my signature, to rent the house as one single collective unit, not as individual rooms, with the rental payment of one whole number.

Each person got a copy of the same Master agreement.

The assured shorthold Tenancy agreement is for a House with a non resident Landlord.

The Tenants who are friends, collectively decided among themselves, how they will make up the whole monthly rental sum.

However the local council stopped accepting payment of council Tax from the Tenants at the end of October, on the evidence of a phone call, to the council , by a member who had a claim in for Housing Benefit & Council Tax, who said he signed an individual rental agreement.

I was told this at the end of November.

They put the council Tax back in my name, from the start of the agreement, until the present day, and said they may review it, after the format of the agreement, they are looking for is sent into them.

(In any case shouldn't each person be responsible for the collective council Tax of the house?, not me, as I am a non resident.) What is the council Tax law stipulation on this?


I am confused by the council stating this is an indivual agreement, they say they can not provide me with a copy of an an assured agreement for a whole house rental,there was no example available in documentation or online of an assured Tenancy agreement for a whole house rental. Without this, and a proper explanation, the chances of you getting it wrong are huge. It's like the council are acting as a third party to this agreement. They said there are different types of tenancies agreements laid down in legislation.

They said:


"The tenants named on the agreement must also have signed the agreement. "

Does this mean on the last page all the Tenants must have signed that page, and me to sign as a witness?

Do I Need to make any alterations to the first page? i.e

The Tenant - should each persons name be indicated here?

I give each person a copy of the agreement.


By making these changes, will it become a single agreement, for Rental of the house as one unit, not individual rooms, not a multiple occupation.

Their contract started over 6 months ago,

By changing the format now, will the council view the changes effective from the date of the change, i.e. the previous 6 months the council Tax was due by me?

Or can I word the agreement to say it is a continuation of the previous agreement, with only the name format changed? The conditions of the rental contract are still the same.

Thank you for your co-operation on this matter,

Have a good rest of week.

[ss002d6252]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

Where the property falls under the defintion of an HMO for council tax purposes as defined the council tax (liability for owners) regulations 1992 then the owner of the property, irrespective of residence, remains liable for the council tax charge due.

If the property has been let as a whole and the tenancy shows the tenants pay a collective rent (e.g £1000 per month rather than £200 each) then its almost certainly not an HMO from what you have posted.

I work in council tax recovery and HMO's are a pain the backside because of the amounts of the money that can be involved if decisions are made retrospectively.


A standard tenancy agreement for the whole house would be the same whether you let it to one or ten people - the difference is in the number of names shown as joint tenants - but from what you say I cant see why it has not been accepted.

You need to speak to the council regarding this matter as soon as possible and challenge their decision with them.

[sam9002]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

Thank you ssoo2d6252 very much, This is a private Tenancy Assured agreement, they are not council Tenants, They rent the House as one whole unit, they came in as a group of friends, and signed the Assured Tenancy agreement, which stated one monthly figure for rent per month.

It was up to them, how they divided the rent amongst themselves, which is normal for such an agreement.

The assured shorthold Tenancy agreement is for a House with a non resident Landlord.


The Rent

At a rent of £X per month payable every month by equal payments in advance, first payment due on DATE and every month thereafter on the 3rd day in each month.

Each person got their own individual copies of the same agreement with their names on it, and signed on the back by them, and one witness, which was another one of the tenants. I or my partner signed each copy as well.

The council seen these contracts, one of the people had a claim in for Housing Benefit & Council Tax , and sent me an e-mail stating the Housing Benefit people would not pay any thing unless he got a letter stating what her portion of the rent was, he said it x amount, which was the total figure divided by 5, this he said was what they had decided in the house (the total monthly rent divided by 5 People).

At the end of October the council said, as a result of this, i.e. this person stating they paid individual rent I replied more than once that, the tenant was wrong to state

"The amount of rent I am individually charged and how often it's due (which would be the figure x,)

The agreement mentioned only one one figure not 5 individual figures

Now they are still saying, they consider the house to be a HMO, purely on the strengh of this.

They phoned the Tenant to say, they were cancelling the Tenant Council Tax Account, and transfering all council Tax payment liability to me from the start of the Tenancy.

I told them, it was crazy to just take the word of one person, without contacting me, and reviewing the Tenancy agreement.

They never sent me a letter or e-mail to state they were changing it over to me and the reason why, the first I heard of it, was when I visited the house at the end of November.

They cancelled the Tenant council Tax account at the end of October, I am not sure if this Tenant still receives Housing Benefit & council Tax, "The council won't divulge that information"

They asked me to change the agreement to a whole House agreement, I was confused at this.

“In order that we can transfer liability to your tenants you should provide a single signed tenancy agreement in the names of all tenants renting the property. Once this is received, we may amend our records further.”

I asked for clarification on this none was given, they only said, "I understand you have difficulties identifying the correct type of tenancy arrangement you should have with your tenants. "

Could they mean, On the first page, each Tenant name is stated, and on the back page, each Tenant signed the contract, along with me and or my partner, I asked if this was correct, they said they can't advise on Tenant agreements.

It would seem to me, they have made a mistake and are trying to cover their own backs, it's a pity their is no support agency who can marshall these situations on behalf of the general public, they are very quick to fine us, yet we have no recourse for their errors.

They have given me until January 31st to send in a changed Tenancy agreement format. As I said to them, without them telling me what changes they want to the existing Agreement, the thrust of the agreement will remain the same. the chances of me getting it wrong are huge.

It's like a guessing game.

By me changing the name format now on the Agreement, will they say, they can only take the agreement from the January 31st, for the period before this, I will be liable?

[Amethyst]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

This site may have a better idea what you need to be doing as they specialise in landlord / tenants issues...

Houses in Multiple Occupation (HMO) - A Guide for Landlords

• Landlords operating certain types of HMOs will need a license from their local council.
• The landlord is liable for the occupiers' Council Tax and therefore an amount to cover this should be included in the rental.

They also have a forum HMO - Multi Occupation Questions where I would expect there will be others who have had comparable issues.

[sam9002]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

Thank you Amethyst,

This is not a House in Multiple occupation,
The 1985 Housing Act definition of "House in Multiple Occupation" was a "house which is occupied by persons who do not form a single household".
The people came in as one group, and were not recruited individually.

Is their any regulation or Act pertaining to Assured Tenancy agreements for a single household?
It still follows that each council is adopting a different set of standards to those set out under the “Fitness Test” of a property by the means of Housing Health & Safety Rating System or (HHSRS), which has 29 prerequisites that councils should check against

[Amethyst]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

That's why they are the experts lol.

I don't know enough to advise you, I can only think the tenant has said individual tenancy agreement is to get the LHA without it being assessed on household income but he should have been okay saying joint tenancy anyway ... ''If you jointly rent a property with other joint tenants and you each have your own bedroom but you share all of the other rooms with the other joint tenants then you are classed living in shared accommodation. Your benefit will be worked out using Local Housing Allowance Level A – the shared room rate. See leaflet HB(LHA)5 for the amounts.''

http://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/Librar...%20tenants.pdf

[ss002d6252]

Re: Council Tenancy Agreement?

This is not a House in Multiple occupation,
The 1985 Housing Act definition of "House in Multiple Occupation" was a "house which is occupied by persons who do not form a single household".
The people came in as one group, and were not recruited individually.

Those regs dont come in to for council tax purposes - they may for planning and enviromental health but not for council tax.

Council Tax HMO's are governed solely by the liability for owners regs 1992 (as amended) . There are cases where a property can fall in to an HMO for planning and not for council tax.

They cancelled the Tenant council Tax account at the end of October, I am not sure if this Tenant still receives Housing Benefit & council Tax, "The council won't divulge that information"

They can't receive Council Tax Benefit as they dont have any council tax liability whilst the property is an HMO. They can still claim Housing Benefit.