Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

[Amethyst]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

So transferring them from criminal to civil maybe ?

[WendyB]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

I seem to get a liability order every year. Problem is they are very quick off the mark, miss one instalment and next thing you know you are in court. As you know the order will be granted anyway, there's not much point turning up in court is there.

However, the woamn at my council tax office told me that unless you chose a different date, the due date of instalments automatically defaults to the 1st of the month, which explains why if you haven't chosen a diffenrrent date, and don't pay the first instalment on 1st April, you will be summonsed before the end of April. She suggested that as soon as i recieve this year's bill, fill in the DD form specifying 28th for payments. Then the payment won't be due until 28th, meaning that you would in effect have an extra month to find the first payment.

[enaid]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

People should be aware that every Local Authority has different dates to have the DD set at, you can not just pick your own date. Some may have only 2 dates to chose from, some 4.

[WendyB]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Sorry I should have mentioned that in my post. My local authority has 3 dates I think

[MIKE770]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

We have just had a February date for magistrates court for non payment of council tax, in as much as we have paid them every month from the date/receipt of their amended bill (September) on reading it they refer to Earlier non payment, well September is not July/august to inform what is required, Note: wife redundant until May 2009, then we told them also they do get informed by Job centre when a person re-starts work , so it would seem un- knowingly catching on we were one behind, Right how does it work: - should they send letter before action allowing you 28 days to remedy payment, not just send summons out of the Blue, when challenged yesterday on phone to them It was admitted that payments were being made, but silence as summons has been issued, I said what about a wasteage order against them in court, I know what you mean was the reply - Um silence, but would Ministry of Justice be impressed with your methods??? silence . Goodby. We owe £400+ i PAID £200 yesterday over the net, the other we should have 2 week or just under to clear, But I am thinking a kick up their neither regions in the form a formal complaint, requesting the complaints proceedures as they seem to be ignorant snowballing legitimate payers, for their own mess ups. Incidently they refer to £75 possible charges if they get to court.

[WendyB]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Did you actually set up a formal payment arrangement with them topay the debt over a shorter period of instalments? If so, and you have stuck to the instalments, then I'm surprised they've gone to Court. I don't think they have to do the normal LBA route, as I said earlier I get a liability order every year lol. If you will be settling it before it goes to court then you should perhaps turn up in court and tell them its settled, then of course the Order wouldn't be granted. The other thing is, because its Magistrates Court, any Orders etc don't show up on your credit file. Also most councils are ok as long as the payment for the year is paid off by the end of March, i.e before the next bill period takes effect.

One of my objectives for this year is to NOT get a Liability Order for my council tax, which if I achieve it will be the first time for God knows how long!

[MIKE770]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Basically I received 1st reminder in early September, they then sent Council tax bill, for 2009/10 after which showed repayments,

[MIKE770]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Have paid the council tax to-day, so up to date, I now wish to make a formal complaint regarding the events leading up to notifiocation of court proceedings (possible), i.e. Receiving 1st Reminder received 08/09/2009, then on/about 15/09/2009 received actual Council tax bill for the year2009/2010.

A letter dated 17/06/2009 regarding overpayment of Council Tax, you will receive a revised tax bill, we did after the 1st reminder, Rang them spoke to a Graham on 08/09/2009 at 14.20p.m. who pointed as per letter payments not received, I pointed out we have not had a tax bill yet, oh! was the answer, we started to make the payments 09/09/2009 as was agreed after being told £109.00 per month was the said figure quoted in 1st reminder (1st payment to be £107.36) 2nd reminder received 11/11/2009, a payment made 05/10/2009/ 10/11/2009/ 01/12/2009/ 11/01/2010/ 21/01/2010-(£200.00)/ 01/02/2010/ 09/02/2010. so all paid, issue of Summons was on 27/01/2010 case No..... to be heard 17/02/2010, this has been all paid to-day.

A final notice was issued 11/01/2010, the occurance would possibly would not have happened if Tax Bill was issued in June as the OH returned to work on 1st May after redundancy. Any Ideas suitable letter? if not I will have a go myself, They were partly to blame through office proceedure (lack of) trying to rectify at a leter date, then shift blame to the other party, even the clerk on the phone said but you have been making payments only one behind, when I mentioned court wastage cost she shut up after saying I know what you mean.

But I feel an apology should be forthcoming from them regarding lateness of issuence of said Tax Bill after bringing to their attention the absence of said Bill.

[MIKE770]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Have paid the council tax to-day, so up to date, I now wish to make a formal complaint regarding the events leading up to notifiocation of court proceedings (possible), i.e. Receiving 1st Reminder received 08/09/2009, then on/about 15/09/2009 received actual Council tax bill for the year2009/2010.

A letter dated 17/06/2009 regarding overpayment of Council Tax, you will receive a revised tax bill, we did after the 1st reminder, Rang them spoke to a Graham on 08/09/2009 at 14.20p.m. who pointed as per letter payments not received, I pointed out we have not had a tax bill yet, oh! was the answer, we started to make the payments 09/09/2009 as was agreed after being told £109.00 per month was the said figure quoted in 1st reminder (1st payment to be £107.36) 2nd reminder received 11/11/2009, a payment made 05/10/2009/ 10/11/2009/ 01/12/2009/ 11/01/2010/ 21/01/2010-(£200.00)/ 01/02/2010/ 09/02/2010. so all paid, issue of Summons was on 27/01/2010 case No..... to be heard 17/02/2010, this has been all paid to-day.

A final notice was issued 11/01/2010, the occurance would possibly would not have happened if Tax Bill was issued in June as the OH returned to work on 1st May after redundancy. Any Ideas suitable letter? if not I will have a go myself, They were partly to blame through office proceedure (lack of) trying to rectify at a later date, then shift blame to the other party, even the clerk on the phone said but you have been making payments only one behind, when I mentioned court wastage cost she shut up after saying I know what you mean.

But I feel an apology should be forthcoming from them regarding lateness of issuence of said Tax Bill after bringing to their attention the absence of said Bill.

Bump.

[ed.]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

You need to complain to council and then take to ombudsman mate. There is no template, you need to do that and the folks here can help tweak it. Nobody can write the letter for you chap as only you know what has happened etc.

[BillandBen]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Received my first liabilty order today - although everything about it is wrong! Guess who will be on the 'phone first thing on Monday!!!!!

[ed.]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Mike also meant to say, double and triple check figures on the paperwork supplied, dates etc.

If the figures they claim are wrong it's another nail for your complaint and so on. You will need to make it as watertight as possible. But the Council Ombudsman's website has a 'previous decision' section where you can see what type of complaints are upheld, and more importantly why they were upheld to help you form the complaint.

[ed.]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Mike, and others, if you can't find it let me know cause I've already gained an hour of my life by reading them lol

[outlawlgo]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

This thread hasn't been commented on for a while, but it is relevant to a number of threads currently covering a similar theme.

I notice there are a number of questionable statements included in the following Canterbury City Council's response to a Freedom of Information request:

Canterbury City Council

Although it is impossible to provide the level of detail you are looking for in terms of precise breakdowns, we include all costs we incur for dealing with the administration of summonses and Council Tax collection. These include Council Tax staff, Customer Services staff, stationery, postage costs, computer systems etc. Each year we review the level of costs charged to satisfy ourselves that they are not excessive. This is achieved by looking at the level of costs charged by other Kent Council and other Councils nationally. Although the most recent exercise of this type revealed that our costs were some 20% lower than what others were charging we still decided to `freeze' the costs for 2008/09 as we are currently satisfied that it reflect what it costs to deal with recovery.

My officers deal with a wide variety of work and dealing with summonses is just one of them. It would be impractical and hugely bureaucratic to ask them to keep detailed timesheets so we can pinpoint exactly where all their resources - and therefore cost - is being utilised. Indeed, if we decided to do this then the overall administrative burden would increase which would increase the overall financial burden - leading to an increase in summons costs, which would be self-defeating.

The reasonableness “test” is ultimately with the court as they have the power to approve or refuse to allow our costs in these cases. If they thought we were charging far more that what it actually costs then they would undoubtedly refuse our proposed charge. We have no such problems and they have approved our costs.

The budget that `benefits' from the payment of costs is the Council Tax budget. We have to collect the monies and that is offset against the total budget we are given for each financial year. We don't actually benefit, as such, from the costs we collect because they go towards the costs we incur collecting the Council Tax.

I am sorry that I cannot give you the level of detail you are asking for but I hope that this response reassures you that the costs passed onto customers are being dealt with in a fair and reasonable way.

All Magistrates that sit on Council Tax liability order hearings are `genuine' Magistrates, as approved by the court service.

The most notable being:

The budget that `benefits' from the payment of costs is the Council Tax budget. We have to collect the monies and that is offset against the total budget we are given for each financial year. We don't actually benefit, as such, from the costs we collect because they go towards the costs we incur collecting the Council Tax.

This council has incriminated itself with this statement. It has openly admitted that summons costs imposed on its residents go towards the costs it incurs collecting Council Tax. Regulation 34 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 do not provide for costs to cover council tax collection, only for costs reasonably incurred in connection with obtaining the liability order.

It is likely then that most if not all councils screw their residents by forcing those caught-out with these fees to unlawfully pay towards council tax administration. One for the increasing collection of supporting evidence I think.

The reasonableness “test” is ultimately with the court as they have the power to approve or refuse to allow our costs in these cases. If they thought we were charging far more that what it actually costs then they would undoubtedly refuse our proposed charge. We have no such problems and they have approved our costs.

This is complete rubbish. The council is playing one of its many "get out of jail free" cards:

How on earth would the Magistrates' court be able to apply a reasonableness “test”, if no supporting evidence is supplied to the court. I think someone at Canterbury City Council has a nose which is growing in similar proportions to the tallness of its stories.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council tax enforcement in magistrates’ courts

Yes. Canterbury City Council seems to have a habit of trying to pull the wool over people's eyes and getting caught out. I'm helping an LB to get redress from these muppets over two PCNs. The Head of Parking tried to kid her that there was no set of bailiff fees for enforcing PCNs and that they were not regulated. That particular muppet has been supplied with copies of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993-2003. I don't think the CEO of Canterbury City Council is too impressed they've been caught out.