Notice of Enforcement

[jadesdaddy]

Hi guys

Today I received a notice of enforcement from my local council stating that I owe them a debt of £113.53 added to this is a fee of £75 marked as "Compliance stage fee"

So here is the background: In January I received a summons for £161.40 plus £55 court fees. Below this was a note that said:

"THIS IS THE FINAL ARRANGEMENT THAT CAN BE MADE. YOU WILL NOT BE GIVEN EXTRA TIME TO PAY THIS DEBT. As long as you pay as shown there is no need for you to contact the council.
15th January 2018 £72
15th February 2018 £72
15th March 2018 £72.40 "

I eventually paid the sum of £161.40 on the 22nd January 2 days before the court date (24th January) I did not pay the £55 costs as I was paying the debt before the court date.

Since the summons I have heard nothing at all from the council until receiving this letter today.

After contacting the National Debt helpline earlier they informed me that they have never heard of a council charging a compliance fee before and advised me that this is usually applied when the debt is passed to a bailiff and the bailiff writes to me, and after looking at the councils website I found the following:

Enforcement Agent is the new name for bailiffs.

Enforcement Agents will initially issue an enforcement notice. This will incur costs of £75.00 payable by you. We will send you the enforcement notice at least 14 days before an enforcement agent visit. We will include with this letter full details of the costs which can be incurred. If you arrange payment immediately after receiving this letter, you can avoid paying enforcement agent costs. If you do not comply with this process then after the 14 days the Enforcement Agent will visit your home and can seize goods to the value of the debt. This can normally incur costs of up to a further £345.00 but can exceed this in the case of large debts.

The enforcement agent will give you the opportunity to make a satisfactory arrangement for payment before considering removing your goods. If enforcement agents are instructed, you may incur a significant amount of costs relating to the visits made by the enforcement agent; levy on goods; hire of van; auctioneer's fee; etc.

Whilst I now realise that I should have paid the £55 asked for court costs (their website actually quotes just £50) The notice has not been sent by an enforcement agency listed on the council website but by the council themselves. I also noticed on the website that they say that an enforcement will visit if the debt is not paid within 14 days I have only been allowed 7 days. The letter is dated 12th February and arrived today the 14th but the letter informs me that I have until midnight on the 21st to pay.

Is it legal for the council to add a compliance stage fee? Also can they cut the time that they are allowing me to pay to just 7 days rather than 14 days?

Finally the maths do not seem to add up if I originally owed £161 plus the £55 costs that is £216 in total yet they are claiming that I still owe £113 before adding the £75 compliance charge. There has been no explanation at how they have arrived at this figure. Would I be within my rights to just pay £55 or must I now pay £188 (including the compliance fee)

Here is a link to the council website it may be of use to check what I have said. https://www.bradford.gov.uk/council-...y-council-tax/

Thanks for any help.

[ploddertom]

It used to be prior to April 2014 that the Council had to give you 14 days notice but that was all done away with in the new Regs. I have heard of this previously where the Council can send the Notic of Enforcement and pocket the fee for doing so but mostly with Councils who have "in house" Enforcement Agents. To comment further is there any chance you can upload a copy of this letter - preferably as a PDF - so we can see for ourselves. Please remember to remove all personal identifiers though.

Given what you say about dates it is going to be non-compliant anyway as they need to give 7 clear days notice.

[lgfa92]

Finally the maths do not seem to add up if I originally owed £161 plus the £55 costs that is £216 in total yet they are claiming that I still owe £113 before adding the £75 compliance charge. There has been no explanation at how they have arrived at this figure. Would I be within my rights to just pay £55 or must I now pay £188 (including the compliance fee)

You may have a dispute over the difference but the £55 that is due is recoverable by way of the enforcement agent in any case.

Clear days doesn't include the day of postage or the day of the event - so if it sent on the 12th then the clear days start on 13th, so the 7 days would run from 13th to the 20th, with the event on the 21st. That would mean the notice would fall within the 7 clear days as long as it was posted on the 12th, it's the date of postage which is relevant rather than the date of receipt.

The updated recovery police for Bradford is available - https://www.bradford.gov.uk/media/40...cy-2017-18.pdf

[jadesdaddy]

Hi and thank you to both of you for your replies.I have attached an image of the notice of enforcement.

Am I right in thinking that I should have at least had a letter saying that a liability order had been made against me before this notice was sent?

Just as a matter of interest I called at the local council office yesterday and spoke with a woman there that I actually know from outside the council and whilst we were discussing this matter she mentioned that just a few years ago Bradford Council did something similar (I wish I could remember exactly what it was) which was not strictly within the law, but involved charging people some kind of penalty and it seems that they quickly stopped this practice when the local paper got hold of the story.

As for in house bailiffs this would not seem to be the case according to their website and do not appear on the list of enforcement agencies who are allowed to send these notices.

Once again thank you for your help.

[lgfa92]

Am I right in thinking that I should have at least had a letter saying that a liability order had been made against me before this notice was sent?

No, there is no requirement to inform you that a liability order has been granted.

As for in house bailiffs this would not seem to be the case according to their website and do not appear on the list of enforcement agencies who are allowed to send these notices.

Their collection policy indicates that they use internal and external agents, "The Council’s Enforcement Agents or Enforcement Agents acting for the Council will ask for payment in full or make an appropriate arrangement and will act in accordance with the National Standards for Taking Control of Goods for Enforcement Agencies / Enforcement Agents.". The only way to confirm one way or the other is to ask them.

[Amethyst]

Do you still have a copy of the summons with the court date on ? Older ones say further costs of £25 will be added.
I'd get on to the Council on Monday ( or today if they're open) and ask them for the breakdown and how much the liability order was actually for.

[lgfa92]

Do you still have a copy of the summons with the court date on ? Older ones say further costs of £25 will be added.
I'd get on to the Council on Monday ( or today if they're open) and ask them for the breakdown and how much the liability order was actually for.

I was wondering that - it's relatively unusual for a council not to split the summons & liability order costs but I couldn't see anything obvious on Bradford's website to indicate that they did split them.

[Amethyst]

Nope, even with odd charges, and allocating part of the £161.40 payment to court fees and odd charges, I can't see how it could ever become £113.53 unless the payment was actually for a different amount. ( would have to have been £102.87 I think) The overall debt remaining should be the £55 + £75 ( well it SHOULD be £0 but system/legal wise £130 overall ) - whichever it's not right and needs questioning.

If it's not paid by the 21st ( regardless of dispute over it ) will it be hit with an attendance fee ( £245 ? ) as well ? So would it be best to pay it to stop it increasing irrationally, then argue the case ?

[lgfa92]

The second fee will be £235. As you say, it's sometimes better to pay and argue the point afterwards rather than just let the fees rack up.

[outlawlgo]

I was wondering that - it's relatively unusual for a council not to split the summons & liability order costs but I couldn't see anything obvious on Bradford's website to indicate that they did split them.

In the tax year 2012-13 the data I have states that Bradford City Council charged summons costs of £85 and there was no additional amount charged to obtain a liability order.

There is no data available from the same source for subsequent tax years until 2015-16 (summons costs of £40, no liability order cost).

Presumably Bradford City Council was either successfully challenged on the legality of the costs (reasonably incurred) or it reviewed the level as a consequence of the Tottenham Magistrates High Court judgment, hence the reduction from £85 to £40 in 2015-16.

Presuming again that since 2015-16 the council has managed to justify to whoever needs persuading that they now incur £55.

[ploddertom]

Bradford Council do have 7 Enforcement Agents listed on the Register @ https://certificatedbailiffs.justice.gov.uk/ type bradford council into the search box. I would certainly agree with what has been said about trying to pay this before the £235 fee comes into play. Paying does not signify "guilt" of anything but then gives you the time to sort it out without the fear of the knock at the door.

[jadesdaddy]

No, there is no requirement to inform you that a liability order has been granted.


Their collection policy indicates that they use internal and external agents, "The Council’s Enforcement Agents or Enforcement Agents acting for the Council will ask for payment in full or make an appropriate arrangement and will act in accordance with the National Standards for Taking Control of Goods for Enforcement Agencies / Enforcement Agents.". The only way to confirm one way or the other is to ask them.

It seems that they are using a liability orders from 2015 and I had a second letter of enforcement today apparently they took me to court again on the 18th February with a liability order from 2013. Seems to be a bit of a joke to take me to court twice in 13 days and so charge me twice, despite them claiming to know exactly what I earn and the fact that I claim no benefits (I work P/T 15 hours per week)

[jadesdaddy]

Called at the council office first chance I could. I've been given a form to fill in with what I earn and my expenditure. As I only work P/T for 15 hours per week and also work "on call" for the same company roughly 160 hours per month, for which I get paid about £1 p/h unless I get called out at which time I get my hourly rate for the time I'm out of the house (actually only earned £120 for this last month) my outgoings are often more than my income, even without having to pay CT this makes calculations very difficult.

I don't claim any benefits. The reason being that I was previously claiming HB and CT benefit (whenever I was entitled) but always seemed to be in debt to BMDC because of over-payments. It always seemed to take them a long time to write to me to inform me that I had been over-paid (sometimes 8 or 9 weeks) When I questioned the period of time it took from being over-paid to being informed of the over-payment I was told that the system is not automated and that over-payments have to be found manually. I've since been told by a person that works in the council that this was simply a lie.

Anyway I received yet another letter of enforcement today as it seems that I was taken to court again on the 18th February (Two letters in the space of one week now) so there is now another £75 compliance fee.

There is no way that I can afford to pay these debts and the council already know this as they know how much I earn and that I claim no benefits. To keep adding to the debt, knowing that I cannot pay just seems ridiculous. That said BMDC are known for their zealousness and actually have a policy that they will collect any debt owed to them regardless of how much they have to spend in order to collect.

I'm not sure how this will all end (badly probably) but there is no way that I can pay what they say I owe, which is just over £1000 and rising with the charges that they keep adding, and of course another round of CT bills due in April, which I also wont be able to pay and be able to continue working never mind paying bills and eating, I simply don't earn enough.

Thanks to all of you for your comments and advice I really appreciate you taking the time to try and help.

[ploddertom]

Sad to say but they are allowed to do this and charge the Compliance Fee each time. If they are going to go ahead for Enforcement then they should be doing them altogether and can then only charge 1 Enforcement Fee. After that unless they can take control of any goods they can charge no more fees.

Are you sure they now have all accounts that you may have owed. If so how many are there? What do you owe on each one? Have you considered involving your local Councillor(s) to fight your corner? Do you agree with the sums concerned?

[jadesdaddy]

Sad to say but they are allowed to do this and charge the Compliance Fee each time. If they are going to go ahead for Enforcement then they should be doing them altogether and can then only charge 1 Enforcement Fee. After that unless they can take control of any goods they can charge no more fees.

Are you sure they now have all accounts that you may have owed. If so how many are there? What do you owe on each one? Have you considered involving your local Councillor(s) to fight your corner? Do you agree with the sums concerned?

I really don't know if they have all accounts or not (maybe another letter on the way) but of course I can find out. There may be a little light at the end of the tunnel, I've been asked by my manager to apply for another position at work and I will be interviewed on the 1st March. If I get the job (and I'm fairly confident as my manager is interviewing me) it would mean relocating, the position is still P/T and only 4 hours per week more than I work now, but would mean that I couldn't work on call anymore because of leaving the area. This would mean a drop in wages of at the very least 25% and I'm confident that I would qualify for a debt relief order. It's not really a road I want to go down (don't really want the job) but it's an option I suppose.

As for having someone to fight my corner I recently contacted my local MP after making a FOI request regarding the councils claim that their benefits system is not automated (as in so much as it doesn't automatically flag up over-payments) He was extremely interested in this and has asked me to forward to him BMDCs response. By all accounts he was a very good councillor until becoming an MP last year,and I have been considering asking him if he can help.

I really need to do something, stupidly I actually thought that I was almost up to date when I was sent the last summons which was for the total sum of £216 it's been so long since I was contacted about any other CT debts by BMDC.