Charging order nightmare

[LC1984]

Reposted as posted to wrong place originally.. new person here

Hi,
I am looking for any help possible, my partner is trying to sell his house, had a buyer back in November started conveyancing process, returned with a charging order on his property from 2004!! He found the original paperwork and his solicitor has attempted to contact eversheds, who took forever and a day to reply that the debt has been sold on, to another company, same problem with that company and so on, and now we cannot find who actually has the charging order on the property to pay them? It was originally with capital bank who no longer exist.
Any help solving this nightmare before we lose our very patient buyer???! Please.......

[R0b]

I would have thought your solicitor could have advised on this since it is their area of expertise!

If you can't trace the creditor who has the legal right to the debt then I would say the sensible thing is to make an application to the court and ask them to make a decision on the next steps. If I was in the position I would do the following:

i. Make an application to the court asking for an order to remove the charging order.

ii. Once the sale has been completed, your solicitor makes a payment into court equal to the debt amount. This goes to a central fund called the Court Funds Office and it accrues interest.

iii. At your own expense, publish a notice in The Gazette (which is an official public journal) stating that the property has been sold and funds have been paid into court. Any person who may have an interest to contact the Court Funds Office, or words to that effect or whatever the court orders.

iv. If, after 6 years, there has been no claim to the debt, the court will refund the amount paid into the Court Funds Office together with interest accrued.

I have no idea as to whether a court can make an order to the effect of iv. above and I've never been part of any application or order to pay funds into court so I'm not familiar with the process, but it would seem like a sensible idea which means you've done everything reasonably possible to alert the creditor and to stake their claim.

As an aside, if you discover that the creditor (assuming it is a company) has dissolved, all assets of that company passes to the Crown - this is known as bona vacantia. Don't know off the top of my head if that extends to debts and charging orders but something to be mindful of should you become aware.

Otherwise, I suggest you speak to your solicitor or something with the relevant knowledge on what could be done in this situation. I'm always of the view that whenever in doubt, ask the court. That way, it is a legally binding order and you will be seen to have taken reasonable steps.

[GillyFlower]

I would have thought your solicitor could have advised on this since it is their area of expertise!
If you can't trace the creditor who has the legal right to the debt then I would say the sensible thing is to make an application to the court and ask them to make a decision on the next steps. If I was in the position I would do the following:
i. Make an application to the court asking for an order to remove the charging order.
ii. Once the sale has been completed, your solicitor makes a payment into court equal to the debt amount. This goes to a central fund called the Court Funds Office and it accrues interest.
iii. At your own expense, publish a notice in The Gazette (which is an official public journal) stating that the property has been sold and funds have been paid into court. Any person who may have an interest to contact the Court Funds Office, or words to that effect or whatever the court orders.
iv. If, after 6 years, there has been no claim to the debt, the court will refund the amount paid into the Court Funds Office together with interest accrued.
I have no idea as to whether a court can make an order to the effect of iv. above and I've never been part of any application or order to pay funds into court so I'm not familiar with the process, but it would seem like a sensible idea which means you've done everything reasonably possible to alert the creditor and to stake their claim.
As an aside, if you discover that the creditor (assuming it is a company) has dissolved, all assets of that company passes to the Crown - this is known as bona vacantia. Don't know off the top of my head if that extends to debts and charging orders but something to be mindful of should you become aware.
Otherwise, I suggest you speak to your solicitor or something with the relevant knowledge on what could be done in this situation. I'm always of the view that whenever in doubt, ask the court. That way, it is a legally binding order and you will be seen to have taken reasonable steps.

Your thoughts would be very much appreciated. I came across this post AFTER I wrote up the questions which are as follows -

I WANT TO SELL MY HOUSE AND HAVE A SOLICITOR AND A BUYER

In September 2022 - I did a Land Registry Search

On Land Registry it shows I have two 'Equitable charge created by an Interim Charging Orders and different Courts. On the left of each Print Out - there is a date a few months later than the Date of Court. (dated 2009/2010 and 2014/2015)

I wrote to both Lowell & Lloyds and the Courts (last December asking the details. I received no replies.)

Note: Also, on the Land Registry details my address is put as my parents' address. (They did in fact loan me money and it is put as a Charge against my property.) Why would they have that and not my property address?

Experian Credit Report - I then thought of getting this next - dated 20 September 2022

I can see figures for Lowell but Lloyds show £0 and what is confusing it says updated to 11 Sept 2022

Solicitor who is managing the sale for me -

* They say they have written to one and received no reply. They ask we follow this up.
* As to the other - the solicitor is asking we chase it.

I understand they cannot complete the sale unless they have the details of the Debts. If I can get the figure to settle then I guess the sale can proceed. BUT - if I can't get this info the Sale will be on hold.

Questions -

1. Surely in my case it has to be Final if the Court is named?

2. I did see (if I have it correct) in another post (ON ANOTHER SITE) that you can try and contact each of the above and ask for a figure they will settle BUT don't say you are selling.

3. If I contact the Courts, can they give me the information?

4. Finally - should the Charging Orders show up on the Experian Report?

Any advice will be very much appreciated - THANK YOU.

[atticus]

GillyFlower Look at the terms of the restrictions registered at Land Registry. They may point to a way in which you can sell without redemption figures.

If you need, do come back quoting the wording.

[GillyFlower]

GillyFlower Look at the terms of the restrictions registered at Land Registry. They may point to a way in which you can sell without redemption figures.

If you need, do come back quoting the wording.

Mine is a dowloaded version from Land REgistry for a small fee.
I cannot anything that is listed as 'Terms of Restrictions'. I do see details of covenants.
I see a note that states you can order an official copy of the register. - is this where there could point to what you refer to?

Thank you

[atticus]

Yes, obtain your Land Registry title document, the official copy of the register.

[GillyFlower]

I am looking at Land Registry site and not sure if I can see Terms of Restrictions on Official Copy. Happy to order if you think it will be there. Thank you for your support. Land Registry Deeds - Land Registry Title Deeds Online (landregistry-deeds.co.uk)

Would it be the TITLE DEEDS & OTHER DEEDS

that could have the Terms of Restrictions? I did see somewhere about one could be used in Court?

Thank you again.

[atticus]

Do you have the official copy of the register?

[GillyFlower]

No - I don't but link (above) is website where I can order specific information. So, what I am trying to say is do I order TITLE DEEDS AND OTHER DEEDS. Are you able to access the link above? Thank you

P.S. I think the price is just under £50 but if it holds the information, I want it could be worth it.
P.P.S. What I have quoted above re charges is what is on basic copy from Land Registry download.

[atticus]

Go to the official gov.uk where you can get it for £3.

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-a...h-the-register

[atticus]

Or ask that nice solicitor of yours to scan and email you a full copy of the Land registry entries.

[GillyFlower]

I did pay £3 possibly and on there are these two entries as I said copied above and I quote --

On Land Registry it shows I have two 'Equitable charge created by an Interim Charging Orders and different Courts. On the left of each Print Out - there is a date a few months later than the Date of Court. (dated 2009/2010 and 2014/2015)

Note: Also, on the Land Registry details my address is put as my parents' address. (They did in fact loan me money and it is put as a Charge against my property.) Why would they have that and not my property address?

Note: Can you tell me where the ' Look at the terms of the restrictions registered at Land Registry' would be written?

P.S. I could copy out here what the Charging Orders state?

[atticus]

Look at part B, The Proprietorship Register. Does it contain any numbered entries described as "Restriction"? If so, what is the full text of those entries?

[GillyFlower]

B - Proprietorship register

4. 2003-03-26 RESTRICTION: Except under an order of the registrar no disposition by the properieter of the land is to be registered without the consent of the proprietor of the Charge dated 7 Feb 2003 in favour of The Mortage Business referred to in the Charges Register.

5.2009-06-26 RESTRICTION: No disposition of the registered estate by the proprietor of the registered estate is to be registered without a written consent signed by the proprietor for the time being of the Charge dated 18 June 2009 in favour of xxxxx which is my parents names.

It ends here and next comes C: Charges Register .........

Where Nortwich County Court for Lloyds TSB and Uxbridge County Court for Lowell is listed, See my posting above No3

Thank you.

[atticus]

OK. I was hoping that the wording of the restrictions might be different (Form K for those who know). But it's not, so I think Rob's answers are best.