Discharging rainwater

[Crazy council]

Re: Discharging rainwater

Theres a bit more to consider in relation to were the water ( whos plot and dains ) it discharges to. so get confirmation before you agree to anything

Stop listening to your niegbour about liability, it is there responcability. My advice is ask you insurance company to send a survoyor to check the damage ( do that by letter not phone |) , may be more serious than you think, What you see with water damage ( marks and bulging plaster ) is not the real problem, especialy if its an outside wall, or a corner.

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

My neighbours have now put a temporary, incomplete and illegal solution in place (re-directing their rainwater into the foul drainpipe, despite Severn Trent saying if they did this, they would need to pump it out in their garden). They also choose to do nothing about the standing rainwater on their flat roof that eventually flows down my wall, nor coughing up for the damage already caused to my kitchen. The one upside is that after engaging a specialist surveyor, there is no evidence of subsidence to my property, but he does still advise excavating around my drain in case of potential below ground long-term damage. The neighbours have left the old drainage system in place, presumably on the basis they will resort back to discharging rainwater onto my property if and when I sell. My insurer will still not entertain a claim because only a temporary solution has been put in place and the neighbour refuses to make a claim on their own policy or pay. What should I do now?

Horleyox

[des8]

Re: Discharging rainwater

So rainwater collecting on their flat roof still drains down your wall, and they are refusing to repair the damage to your house.
In that case refer to post 15, and perhaps have a consultation with a solicitor.
Some will give a free short consultation which will help you decide the best way forward.

JustBeagle, (https://justbeagle.com) our sister site has a list of solicitors

If you want to go it alone a letter (get proof of posting) to your neighbour telling them you require they put their house in order and pay for the damage already caused.
Give them a time limit in which to respond & tell them that if they don't you will initiate court action.
Then a CC action or visit solicitor

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

Today my neighbour accused me of extortion. She said I did not get a survey when I bought the property, so the damage to my kitchen may be longstanding. They are such freeloaders. They have most recently reported me to Planning Enforcement for not screening their property for them from my balcony. Relations are at a low ebb. Should I continue to pursue or just give up and move?

horleyox

[des8]

Re: Discharging rainwater

If you give up and move you are going to have to declare to any purchaser about the problems your are having with your neighbour.
Won't do the asking price any favours!

Unless you want your water damage problems to continue, I don't see you have any choice but to continue to pursue the matter.
But your choice!

[warwick65]

Re: Discharging rainwater

How do they know there was no survey done?

I don't quite get the balcony bit, I assume it overlooks their property. Did you have it added

I would think a surveyor would be able to tell how longstanding any damage is.

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

I don't know how they would know this. Local gossip I would guess.

My balcony dates from the 1960s and is set back because of neighbour's' extensions on both sides; their's is much larger and from the mid-70s. It protrudes so far out they overlook virtually every neighbour's garden on my side of the street. Their attitude to screening it and providing for their neighbour's' privacy is 'why should we?'

Thanks for the suggestion of getting a surveyor involved. I recently sought advice from a structural surveyor I trust who has informed me there is no evidence of subsidence but it would provide peace of mind and avoid future problems to excavate, check the drain joints and foundations. My neighbours are not happy about this - or the associated costs.

horleyox

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

So I gave a deadline of 30 days to sort out a permanent solution and resolve cost of damage caused voluntarily or I would take action. In response I have received a solicitor's letter asking for a meeting to discuss our issues, avoid a dispute and acknowledge the fact my neighbours apparently want a 'mutually respectful relationship'. But no offer to resolve or pay, and they have since reported me to planning enforcement for taking away some screening from my balcony that was providing them with privacy at my expense. If the matter goes to Court and I have not agreed to a meeting, will this be viewed negatively?

horleyox

[des8]

Re: Discharging rainwater

As Christmas is in the offing nothing much is going to be arranged until the New Year anyway so you have time to consider your options.

As a rule of thumb it is better to avoid court if possible, so if they are offering discussion with a view to mediation, you should at least consider it.
If you take up the offer of talks, perhaps instruct a solicitor to accompany you (or at least investigate the possible costs)

To be portrayed as declining the opportunity to conclude the matter without recourse to the courts will not be regarded favourably!
Practice Directions state:
Before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to—

(a) understand each other’s position;
(b) make decisions about how to proceed;
(c) try to settle the issues without proceedings;
(d) consider a form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) to assist with settlement;
(e) support the efficient management of those proceedings; and
(f) reduce the costs of resolving the dispute.

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

Thanks. I should have remembered all that from a previous unsavoury experience. I shall offer some formof ADR if nothing is heard within the 30 days deadline set.

On a separate but linked manner, I went to the Council to look at the drawings relating to the planning permission for the neighbour's extension and flat roof adjoining mine to see what arrangements had been made for discharging rainwater from it. This dates back to 1975 and was on microfiche.

In the course of seeing that the approved proposals for new gullies and a new down pipe on their land were ignored, I also saw that my boundary had been altered, so the same extension infringes my first floor boundary with them by nearly 3 feet. The neighbours obviously say there is nothing that can now be done about this now, but is this the case? It effectively makes my upper stairs and 3 feet width of a top floor bedroom are flying freeholds. What, if anything, can be done to rectify this to make sure my boundary is recorded correctly in my Title Deeds and with the Land Registry?

horleyox

[des8]

Re: Discharging rainwater

Have you checked the land registry yet, and if so what does it reveal?

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

The electronic copy reveals nothing. The scale of the location plan is not sufficient to determine any more than an outline. When I bought the property, my solicitor noted the boundaries were regular. The seller's PIF added nothing. A deed dating from 1965 and planning applications relating to my property from 1966 and 1971 show the boundary was regular and I hadn't lost out until the neighbour's 1975 application for their kitchen extension. There is no legal or written agreement between neighbours at that time allowing them to do this. While I appreciate the neighbour's won't be knocking their extension down, is there anything I can do to register or right this or is there a statute of limitations on such things?

horleyox

[des8]

Re: Discharging rainwater

AFAIK if they haven't applied for and been granted adverse possession you could apply to a court for a possession order.
You will need of course to be able to prove the land is yours.
However the previous owners of your house may have been aware of what was happening and made no objection so giving rise to a defence of estoppel.
Land law is complicated !!! so tagging @Peridot & [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] to see if they can comment on your post 25 final paragraph & 27 (no need to read whole thread if you're busy!)

[Crazy council]

Re: Discharging rainwater

i have had some experiences dealing with boundry issuse like this. there is a process ( if its still the same ) with the land registry that verifys the bouindrys, you have to get a survoyer and providfe them all the details and they check asnd mesure. Plans can be out due to mesurments not being accurate any time before 8os, You start with the earlyest devision of land and work forward from there.

The others who des8 has tagged know much more about the current conditions and legal side then i do, I just dealt with a few issuse like this back between 99 and 2005.

[horleyox]

Re: Discharging rainwater

I decided to take no legal action against my neighbour for the discharging damage (life is too short and legal action too expensive!), so I am getting the damage to my kitchen and outside wall repaired at my expense, but with no permanent solution in place to avoid recurrence.

The boundary issue is causing more distress. I called out a specialist surveyor who advised there clearly was a case of infraction but the outcome can be influenced by subjective factors, particularly if it gets to Court. He outlined the process as being a) employ him to digitally scan and map the disputed boundary over three floors (cost £700+VAT), b) engage the services of an expert witness he works with to carry out a full historical review then c) intimate Court proceedings.

Then yesterday I received a letter from a litigation solicitor acting on behalf of my neighbours stating that "You will appreciate that our clients' flat roof that abuts your balcony has been in place for 30 years and your claim to ownership of some 45cm of that flat roof has been addressed by a number of owners and occupiers over a number of years and resolved. It is clear that the client's flat roof is in our clients' ownership as a matter of fact and logic and even if the assertions you make with regards to the plan are correct, the pencil of prescription means that ownership will vest with our clients."

I intend to respond as follows (they have given me just 7 days o do so), but as a novice in such matters would appreciate any advice:

"It would appear your clients have a boundary dispute with me. Neither my conveyancing solicitor nor I were made aware that there were previous disputes between owners on this matter or that these had been addressed. Your clients' claim to ownership following the boundary infraction that took place when the rear extension was built in 1975 does not appear to have been recorded legally or with HM Land Registry. If you have such evidence or a record of how this matter was previously addressed, please provide copies. If not, your clients need to take the appropriate course of action and this will result in Court proceedings."

Any thoughts or suggestions? Any alternative ways to proceed? I am keen for my neighbours to do the running on this, rather than me, given the expense involved in the process if they wish to pursue it.

Thanks in advance.

horleyox