All monies on clause mortgages

[Amethyst]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Another problem involves 'all monies clauses'.These are sometimes written into mortgage contracts and allow the lender to use your home as security against any other debts you may have with it. So if you have a mortgage with bank X but take an unsecured loan with one of its subsidiaries and then default on that loan, your home could be at risk. All of Woolwich's mortgages have an all monies clause written into them, but a spokesman says any other debts you have with the group - say a Barclaycard credit card debt (Barclays owns Woolwich) - are unconnected.

High Street money maze | This is Money
2005

Buy to Let legal notice : Barclays Personal Banking



http://www.publications.parliament.u...1213/aib-1.htm
australia again - http://archive.sclqld.org.au/judgepub/2005/dj060805.pdf



NI - interesting article page 3 - http://www.lawsoc-ni.org/download/Writ%20May.pdf

After some correspondence with the First
Trust Bank it confirmed that these clauses
have been withdrawn.

Having written to the Northern Bank in
relation to this matter, the Bank has
indicated to the Society that at some stage
in the future it is likely that the All Monies
clauses will be discontinued from
domestic property.

[scoobydoo]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

reference to helping others by getting publicity - it seems that this clause may also be present in offsett mortgages which are quite popular because of the tax advantages.

If you lost your job for example you may be relying on your savings account for gettin you through hard times . But under the all monies clause they could immediately take your savings to pay any arrears. In ther words taking away any choice of how you use your funds to get you through bad times. so if this was brought to peoples attention again then at least those peple could divert their funds and use them as they feel fits the situation. Also it will warn others to check T&C on any re-mortgages.

I am going to check mine( offsett) when I get a chance - and as an ex BS worker I should have noticed it - but if it is in my mortgage I as well am completely unaware.

[Jester]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Well, if we are going to start any kind of campaign about this then we are going to need information on all the different kinds of mortgages out there that have these clauses. It will probably also be necessary to do a 'name and shame' on the lenders who are operating these things.

The last thing any of the banks need right now in the present economic climate is more bad publicity, but if that is what gets the authorities to listen and act then that is what must be done.

Obviously, some serious homework needs to happen here as we cannot run the risk of being accused of slandering any of these banks because they all have considerable resources to use against such 'damages' to their reputation.

Many of the other things that have come to light on this thread such as Australia making these things illegal, the Law Society examining and encouraging Northern Ireland Lenders to stop this practice etc etc will also come into play. Though I don't quite understand why the Law Society has only looked at NI so far as that body represents the whole of GB, not just NI.

I also think that for such a publicity campaign on these types of mortgages to get off the ground then a well-known and publicly respected consumer campaigning figure would need to be got on board. I'm thinking of the likes of Martyn Lewis in this respect. I know he has his own website, but many if not most of us are also members on his website too (that's where I met Amethyst for example).

The advantage of getting someone like Martyn on board is that he already has the platform to highlight these things with regular slots on high-profile TV shows as well as his own TV show.

I know it may not be what everyone was thinking, but if this thing is as big as it is starting to appear to be, then he is exactly that sort of figure head we need to be looking at to get it off the ground.

What does everybody else think ?

[scottishlass]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Not sure if this is of any use or not

Credit Today online

[Jester]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Cheers SL. This thing is getting scarier and scarier isn't it?


If it is as widespread as it seems, then we could be looking at a massive banking scandal that most people are blissfully unaware of.

Not sure if this is of any use or not

Credit Today online

[scottishlass]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Your not wrong there

The thing is I and probably most of the rest of us have never heard of this clause which might be in a few of our agreements, it was interesting the comment from one of the guys that they had to explain about the clause and get them to sign that they understood.

Is that happening here......................no of course not

Glad to see you are back in fighting spirit

SL xx

[Jester]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

More info (hopefully some of the more legally literate among us will understand this better and summarise. But it has a lot fo scary scenarios in relation to 'all monies' clauses and charges.

GOOD NEWS FOR BANKERS A NIGHTMARE FOR BORROWERS

[TUTTSI]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Just found this.....

http://www.moneynet.co.uk/press-rele...21-01-08.shtml

and this.....

http://www.cbba.co.uk/pages/journal.html

and this Judgement as well.........

http://www.courtsni.gov.uk/NR/rdonly...j_GIRE3384.htm

[Amethyst]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Will sit tonight and collate all this info together so we can read through it properly and assemilate (word?) the facts and main points. The main aim is to build a case for Jester to get his reposession over turned and buy him some breathing space to make payments to the mortgage company while he sorts out finances or decides to sell under his own terms. Thats only a decision Jest and his family can make.

The secondary aim is becoming more apparent now - something needs doing publicity wise to make people aware of the risks of these mortgages. We are going to see many reposessions coming through in coming months, and the usual it'll be okay if you offer to pay off the arrears, its your family home etc won't work with the courts. So we need to build a decent case to show these clauses as unfair and have reposessions judged on 'normal' terms as opposed to this very one sided unexplained to consumers crafty devious scheming removal of rights sct 8 & 36 AJA clause. lol.



Risks in the mortgage market: A regulator's view

[EXC]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

As Ame said, Jester's case is the priority. I can certainly try and run it past Tom - he's gone awal for the minute but I'll do it. And if there's anything else anyone can think of?

On getting more info and publicity, I think we can e-mail the usual suspects about their knowledge off 'all monies' like Bob E, Wendy etc plus I can do an FoIA request to the OFT and FSA to find out if it's an issue. And I can call the very freindly folks at the BCSB but I need to be clear on how RBS broke which part of the Banking code.

[scoobydoo]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

I agree with your post above and think ML may be worth approaching - he may already be aware of this type of mortgage. He may even know of other cases.

Have you tried a general post on CAG to see if there is anyone else in your position?

If not I will do it for you as I am sure you have million things on your mind

I had one other thought ut unforunately time is not on your side

That is the pro-bono route where I belive trainee barristers take on your case free of charge. they can arrange legal aid if appropriate and you have to approach the pro-bono unit yourself and fill in a form.

I will post some details for you

in the meantime keep pesterig the FOS and keep explaining how urgent your case is as I assume if you paid off the arrears during the 56 days they could not take your house?

I have known cases where they have stepped in and been effective - so keep trying.

Please pass on the message to your familly that we are all thinking of you at this dificult time

Jan
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I think EXC what Jester is saying is that if there was ot a " All monies " clause he would have ben given the chance to pay interest only for a while while seeking employment and also maybe enough time to work on reclaiming the bak charges to repay the arrears and again give him some breathing space.

Also he was not aware of the All monies clause when he took out the mortgage.

The clause also seems to go against the mortgage code that RBS proclaim to be part of as the way he was treated in court does not sem to be the way the way banks are supposed to treat customers in financial trouble.

There has been an article written about this in a similar vein as to how NR are treating IVA cases .

I will link to the post in a minute.

[Jester]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

Exc,

From a personal point of view, I think they broke the code by not acting fairly in their dealings with me. Others may take a different view, but I cut and paste the 'Fairness Statement' from the Banking Code.

2 Fairness commitment

We promise we will treat you fairly and reasonably when
providing you with products and services covered in
this Code. We will keep this promise by meeting all of
the key commitments shown below.

• We will make sure that our advertising and
promotional literature is clear and not misleading
and that you are given clear information about our
products and services.
Given that I was unaware of the nature of the product I was being sold (i.e. an 'all-monies' mortgage), I would say they have clearly violated this. The whole thing is very misleading as are many mortgage products on the market which contain this clause. Once I have the mortgage papers back in my hands then I can possibly show it as an example.
• We will give you clear information about accounts
and services, how they work, their terms and
conditions and the interest rates which may apply.
They promoted the things that they knew would get attention. i.e. fixed term interest period, what the interest was etc. They did NOT warn me that the product was anything other than a standard mortgage.
• We will help you use your account or service by
sending you regular statements (where appropriate)
and we will keep you informed about changes to the
interest rates, charges or terms and conditions.
Yes, they did stick to this part
• We will help you to switch your current account
between financial institutions that subscribe to this
Code.
n/a
• We will lend responsibly.
A matter for conjecture I guess, but given that I was in full-time employment when I took the mortgage on then they were well aware that had the financial ability to make the payments. Indeed, I never once missed a payment until at least three months after I became unemployed. They knew I was unemployed from the moment it happened to me.
• We will deal quickly and sympathetically with things
that go wrong and consider all cases of financial
difficulty sympathetically and positively.
I take real issue with this statement. Within two months of becoming unemployed, I inevitably started to struggle. But I did manage to keep the mortgage payments pretty much up to date. However, in March this year, I almost went three months behind on my payment schedule. It was at this point that I had to start dealing with the extremely distasteful Chi Armstrong in RBS Collections Services. A more obnoxious and unyielding woman I could not have encountered. She was not in the slightest bit sympathetic to us. She spoke very gruffly and was even downright rude and aggressive to both my wife and I when we called to make payments or explain why we were late with a payment. She has obviously never attended a customer care course !!
It was she that I had to deal with all the time. When I knew that the DWP were about to start making contributions to the interest-only part of the payments, I asked her if the bank would be prepared to accept my making interest-only payments for a short period of time. She was extremely resistant to this and treated me like I was totally thick. It wasn't until I pointed out to her that she had her sums all wrong (and why) that I started getting anywhere. Still however, she refused to budge. I explained my difficulty clearly and concisely to her. That the DWP payments would not cover the total necessary to cover interest-only payments, but that I would make that amount up from our own pockets despite it being a sum that we could not really afford. Still she would not listen. At this point I asked to speak to her superior. She even refused me that, but did eventually agree to talk to her superior on my proposal. After keeping me waiting on the phone for around 15 minutes, she eventually came back and told me that she had been authorised to accept my payment offer for July, August and September only. After this period I would have to come back with acceptable plans for clearing the arrears. I agreed to this, but also insisted that she put it all in writing. Approx. 10 days later I received confirmation of our agreement in writing.
Two days after receiving the written agreement, both my wife and I were served with County Court Papers by RBS (Through Cobbetts). The court papers themselves had the biggest pack of lies on them, claiming that 'Letters of demand and correspondence sent to the Defendants have failed to produce a satisfactory response', and 'No current and/or relevant information is known about the Defendant's Circumstances'.
Bearing in mind what you have just read above, it should be obvious that I had kept them up to date with everything. I even had a written agreement of acceptance of my offer of reduced repayment terms.
When we got to court yesterday, we were told by the RBS solicitor that he had been instructed by his client to seek total repossession and accept nothing less. This means that the written agreement I had received from Ms Armstrong was not worth the paper it was written on.
If THAT is what RBS call 'dealing quickly and sympathetically with things that go wrong and consider all cases of financial difficulty sympathetically and positively', then I suggest they are taught the English language again and also what courtesy, politeness and fair actually is. I am minded to send them a dictionary so they read up on those words.
Of course, neither did it help that the Judge had already made up his mind before entering court, but that is another matter altogether.
• We will treat all your personal information as private
and confidential, and provide secure and reliable
banking and payment systems.
Hmmm...should I comment ?
• We will publicise this Code, have copies available
and make sure that our staff are trained to put it into
practice.
I would suggest that someone forget to tell this to Ms Armstrong and her colleagues in RBS Collections Services.

To meet these promises, we will, as a minimum, take
the steps and meet the standards set out in the rest of
this Code.
They have already failed on the above points, let alone the rest of the banking code

So Exc, there's your starter for 10. I could go on and give a rambling rant on how else we have been treated badly and unfairly, but I think I have said much of it previously in the thread and this is already turning into a long reply.

Does this help you at all for ammunition in any phonecalls you may make to your contacts ? I can give a lot more detail if they require it.

Thanks a lot for your attention and help. It is greatly appreciated.
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Scooby - The message the RBS Solicitor was painting in the courtroom was that they are seeking full and final payment of the outstanding sum (£172, 750 or thereabouts, can't remember that actual figure). They are not interested in anything else.

Even if I paid off the arrears they would not accept it from what he said.

So, the only choice I have is to fight this and get it overturned (unless my numbers come uop in the Lottery tonight of course) !!

[scoobydoo]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

EXC

see post 1 article on this thread re argument in principle .NR and IVA but argment i believe is similar

[Curlyben]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

While looking at the Banking Code they have also breached section 14.

14.1 We will be sympathetic and positive when we consider
any financial difficulties you may have. Our first step will be
to try to contact you to discuss the matter.

14.2 If you find yourself in financial difficulties, you should let
us know as soon as possible. We will do all we can to
help you to overcome your difficulties. With your cooperation,
we will develop a plan with you for dealing
with your financial difficulties and we will tell you in
writing what we have agreed.

14.3 The sooner we discuss your problems, the easier it will
be for both of us to find a solution. The more you tell us
about your full financial circumstances, the more we
may be able to help.

Jester has clearly been in contact with them concerning difficulties, hence the interest only repayments, but to then turn round and start action is in clear violation.

[Jester]

Re: All monies on clause mortgages

I'd just like to apologise for ranting in the above points, but it does hurt like hell the way these scumbags have treated me over the last few months depite all the effort I made to stay within the terms of the mortgage.

I just get really animated when I talk about it at the moment and my blood starts to boil !!