Council Housing Query

[masterintoo]

Hi,

Hopefully somebody will be able to give some advice on options I may have regards the Council at the moment.

My mum recently passed away and I informed the council straight away. They informed me that I had no legal right to the property and I would have to leave within 28 days if they requested me to. this action has just been activated so I am really not in a good place a the moment.

I am hoping I can slow the process down somehow to at least allow me to stay a while longer to save cash for a deposit at least. The funeral is still being paid for and my head is a total mess at the moment, still grieving and they throw this crap on me.

When my dad passed away in 2012, me and my mum didn't realise that only one succession could happen, if we had the property would have been put in my name to save all the issues that are rearing their head now. The house has been a family home since I was a small kid.

I know it is a long shot but I am hoping that many errors by the council (maybe only adminstrative I am unsure) may allow me to go to the council/courts to fight for more time or indeed maybe keep the house.

Here is a timeline of the house.

My mum and dad moved into the property in 1983.

3/12/2012 Dad passed away – Mum informed Council who came around and said not to worry. Mum and myself can carry on living there.

2012-currently ongoing - letters from the council still have both mums and dads names on, including rent accounts and new tenancy agreement that came through the post. All these addressed to mum and dad still even after repeated phone calls.


6/8/2016 – Mum passed away, I informed the council who again came around and told me I had no legal right to the property and would have to leave within 28 days. This has been activated.

October 2016 - Again received rent account details which again was in my mum and dads name (Which showed payments I had made and a little housing benefit topup I applied for)

I really don't want letters in my mum and dads name, especially when they have been told multiple times about both deaths.

Would letters still in my mum and dads name from the council show that no succession had been made on the house? and would this be possible to argue in court that the error was with the council not myself or my mum?

Hopefully you can deciper most of that and really hope somebody can help a little bit, no house just before christmas is a real kick in the teeth.

Thanks.

[45002]

Re: Council Housing Query

Hi,

Hopefully somebody will be able to give some advice on options I may have regards the Council at the moment.

My mum recently passed away and I informed the council straight away. They informed me that I had no legal right to the property and I would have to leave within 28 days if they requested me to. this action has just been activated so I am really not in a good place a the moment.

I am hoping I can slow the process down somehow to at least allow me to stay a while longer to save cash for a deposit at least. The funeral is still being paid for and my head is a total mess at the moment, still grieving and they throw this crap on me.

When my dad passed away in 2012, me and my mum didn't realise that only one succession could happen, if we had the property would have been put in my name to save all the issues that are rearing their head now. The house has been a family home since I was a small kid.

I know it is a long shot but I am hoping that many errors by the council (maybe only adminstrative I am unsure) may allow me to go to the council/courts to fight for more time or indeed maybe keep the house.

Here is a timeline of the house.

My mum and dad moved into the property in 1983.

3/12/2012 Dad passed away – Mum informed Council who came around and said not to worry. Mum and myself can carry on living there.

2012-currently ongoing - letters from the council still have both mums and dads names on, including rent accounts and new tenancy agreement that came through the post. All these addressed to mum and dad still even after repeated phone calls.


6/8/2016 – Mum passed away, I informed the council who again came around and told me I had no legal right to the property and would have to leave within 28 days. This has been activated.

October 2016 - Again received rent account details which again was in my mum and dads name (Which showed payments I had made and a little housing benefit topup I applied for)

I really don't want letters in my mum and dads name, especially when they have been told multiple times about both deaths.

Would letters still in my mum and dads name from the council show that no succession had been made on the house? and would this be possible to argue in court that the error was with the council not myself or my mum?

Hopefully you can deciper most of that and really hope somebody can help a little bit, no house just before christmas is a real kick in the teeth.

Thanks.

Hi

Sorry to hear of your loss.

I would go to your nearest CAB or Shelter office ASAP with all your paper work and so on, get them to check your succession rights and how long you can stay there for...

Keep paying the rent too

Don't take any advice from the council and don't be pushed around by them.

You don't have to move out until a court orders you to.

Good luck and keep us All posted ...

[des8]

Re: Council Housing Query

Most certainly contact SHELTER.
My understanding is that in the case of a joint tenancy (as in your parent's circumstances) when one tenant dies the tenancy CONTINUES in the name of the survivor.
It is not a succession, but a continuation, so on the passing of your mother you are entitled to succeed to the tenancy.
I'll start a trawl through he regulations, but SHELTER may be quicker!
In the meantime can you advise which council we are dealing with, so we can check their rules?

[des8]

Re: Council Housing Query

Well there is case law in support of the above view:
In Tennant v Hutton (Court of Appeal, 9 July 1996, unreported) a similar question had arisen in respect of Schedule 1 Part 1 of the Rent Act 1977, where a husband and wife held a joint tenancy, with the daughter living with them. On the death of the wife, the question was who succeeded to the tenancy, the husband or the daughter. The Court of Appeal held that there was no succession because the tenancy subsisted in the husband. The daughter “cannot claim a statutory tenancy by succession to her mother because immediately before her death her mother was not the protected tenant of the house. She was merely one of the two persons who constituted tenant”. Millett LJ said:

Parliament’s intention is clear and accords with a literal application of the statute. The family of a statutory tenant is to be protected from eviction when the tenancy comes to an end on the death of the tenant. When the tenancy is vested in joint tenants, the tenancy does not come to an end on the death of the first of them to die and the survivor needs no protection. There is neither need nor room for the application of the schedule and the statutory rules of succession until the death of the survivor. Until after Mrs Tennant’s death, there was no single tenant of the house on whose death the statutory provisions could or needed to apply.

The essence of a joint tenancy is that the property is vested in all or both of the joint tenants together. In contemplation of law there is only one tenant, though the tenant consists of two or more persons and the survivors and survivor of them. On the death of any one of them, the property becomes vested in survivors or survivor. There is no true transmission of title. The property remains vested after the death in the same tenant as it did before, though the number of persons who compose the tenant is reduced by one.

If the tenancy is a joint tenancy, the tenant has not died if there remains at least one living joint tenant in whom all the proprietary and contractual rights attaching to the tenancy subsist. Section 89 of the Housing Act 1985 is a mandatory provision which is wholly concerned with the transmission of the tenancy to a person other than the previous tenant, on account of the latter’s death. This makes sense only on the assumption that there no longer is a previous tenant. Where there is a surviving joint tenant, the whole statutory basis for disposing of the succession to the tenancy is absent. It is no answer to this to say that the purpose of the statute is to transfer the tenancy to members of the tenant’s family living in the house. That simply begs the question. It is not necessary to provide for the transmission of a tenancy on death unless there is, so to speak, a vacancy. If the tenancy subsists in the surviving joint tenant, there is none. It is obvious that section 89 implicitly excludes the possibility of the transmission of the tenancy upon death in a manner inconsistent with its terms. But the recognition of the right of the survivor under a joint tenancy is not inconsistent with the provisions of section 89 relating to the transmission of tenancies, because the survivor’s right is not a matter of transmission. The survivor has the same rights as he always did.

[Diana M]

Re: Council Housing Query

They informed me that I had no legal right to the property and I would have to leave within 28 days if they requested me to. this action has just been activated so I am really not in a good place a the moment.

I am hoping I can slow the process down somehow to at least allow me to stay a while longer to save cash for a deposit at least.

. . . . no house just before christmas is a real kick in the teeth.

Do you mean the Local Authority has started possession proceedings against you in the county court?

If you are the "Occupier" then they may need to seek a court order before you can be tossed out onto the street. Getting shot of you may not be as simple as they'd like you to believe!

Contact Shelter (as has been said) on their free Advice Helpline 0808 800 4444 to get some peace of mind.

And then go out and buy yourself a Christmas Tree this weekend in defiance of the Council's stance

Di