Freehold title problems

[kmc1207]

When I bought my upstairs maisonette the freehold was registered on two separate title registers one for downstairs and one for upstairs but both were owned by the same person in the downstairs property. The downstairs has since been repossessed and only the freehold title for downstairs was transferred to the new owner leaving my freehold title in the name of the evicted person. I am now trying to sell my property but it has been pointed out that the two titles are now defective as they need to be in single ownership and until this is the case I will have a problem selling. Does anyone know how I can rectify this problem, the freehold owner for the downstairs property will not help at all as he should of been transferred both titles but wasn't.

[Kati]

Re: Freehold title problems

tagging [MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] [MENTION=7765]Joanna C[/MENTION] for advice xx

[Crazy council]

Re: Freehold title problems

Hi

not so easy this, it may be worth looking at the cost of purchasing the freehold, and selling it with the property if possible or financially viable. I suppose that the current owner of your freehold, would be the mortgagee co that repossessed him. It may just be registered to the last owner due to paperwork delays.

You want copys of all the paperwork relating to the sales if possible, and any paperwork that relates to titles etc, Then confirm who the current freeholder is ( current owner or mortgagee co ), then make sure they register it property with the land registry.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Freehold title problems

When I bought my upstairs maisonette the freehold was registered on two separate title registers one for downstairs and one for upstairs but both were owned by the same person in the downstairs property. The downstairs has since been repossessed and only the freehold title for downstairs was transferred to the new owner leaving my freehold title in the name of the evicted person. I am now trying to sell my property but it has been pointed out that the two titles are now defective as they need to be in single ownership and until this is the case I will have a problem selling. Does anyone know how I can rectify this problem, the freehold owner for the downstairs property will not help at all as he should of been transferred both titles but wasn't.

deleted irrelevant advice

[kmc1207]

Re: Freehold title problems

The downstairs freeholder bought the property after the repossession and thought he had bought the freehold for both properties, charging us ground rent for 9 years. The error wasn't picked up at the time he purchased the property but during a recent conveyance in has come to light that the evicted lady's name is still on the title for the upstairs property in error. We can managed to locate her and agreed to buy the freehold/extend the lease as it is low at a high premium. The problem we now have is the downstairs freeholder won't help and take the freehold title so both titles are back in single ownership as there will be no value in it once we have extended the lease. The freehold titles should not have been split but because they have been we now cannot sell through no fault of our own.

[kmc1207]

Re: Freehold title problems

The downstairs freeholder bought the property after the repossession and thought he had bought the freehold for both properties, charging us ground rent for 9 years. During a recent conveyance in has come to light that the evicted lady's name is still on the title for the upstairs property. We can managed to locate her and agreed to buy the freehold/extend the lease as it is low at a high premium. The problem we now have is the downstairs freeholder won't help and take the freehold title so both titles are back in single ownership as there will be no value in it once we have extended the lease. The freehold titles should not have been split but because they have been we now cannot sell through no fault of our own.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Freehold title problems

The downstairs freeholder bought the property after the repossession and thought he had bought the freehold for both properties, charging us ground rent for 9 years. The error wasn't picked up at the time he purchased the property but during a recent conveyance in has come to light that the evicted lady's name is still on the title for the upstairs property in error. We can managed to locate her and agreed to buy the freehold/extend the lease as it is low at a high premium. The problem we now have is the downstairs freeholder won't help and take the freehold title so both titles are back in single ownership as there will be no value in it once we have extended the lease. The freehold titles should not have been split but because they have been we now cannot sell through no fault of our own.

Misunderstood the complexity of maisonette property law, as a property within it only leasehold apparently, even if it's purchased outright.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Freehold title problems

The downstairs freeholder bought the property after the repossession and thought he had bought the freehold for both properties, charging us ground rent for 9 years. During a recent conveyance in has come to light that the evicted lady's name is still on the title for the upstairs property. We can managed to locate her and agreed to buy the freehold/extend the lease as it is low at a high premium. The problem we now have is the downstairs freeholder won't help and take the freehold title so both titles are back in single ownership as there will be no value in it once we have extended the lease. The freehold titles should not have been split but because they have been we now cannot sell through no fault of our own.

wrong advice, so deleted.

[Crazy council]

Re: Freehold title problems

hi [MENTION=90471]kmc1207[/MENTION]

I think i know someone that's handeld something similar. I have handled these ( many years ago ) , but never had to force anything, but i do remember a buddy doing it, i probably wont see them till next week, from memory, the building insurances would have had a problem under certain circumstances, and my friend used this against an unwilling owner.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Freehold title problems

When I bought my upstairs maisonette the freehold was registered on two separate title registers one for downstairs and one for upstairs but both were owned by the same person in the downstairs property. The downstairs has since been repossessed and only the freehold title for downstairs was transferred to the new owner leaving my freehold title in the name of the evicted person. I am now trying to sell my property but it has been pointed out that the two titles are now defective as they need to be in single ownership and until this is the case I will have a problem selling. Does anyone know how I can rectify this problem, the freehold owner for the downstairs property will not help at all as he should of been transferred both titles but wasn't.

Here's some guidance I managed to find. It's complex as Crazy Council states, and not like any other area of property law. You only have a leasehold where the one who owns the building has all the rights. It doesn't seem likely you can even manage a collective enfranchisement as the downstairs leaseholder probably wouldn't be interested. Only the owner of the building can charge ground rent and not a leaseholder. http://www.leaseholdguidance.co.uk/s...nfranchisement

[Diana M]

Re: Freehold title problems

When I bought my upstairs maisonette the freehold was registered on two separate title registers one for downstairs and one for upstairs but both were owned by the same person in the downstairs property. The downstairs has since been repossessed and only the freehold title for downstairs was transferred to the new owner leaving my freehold title in the name of the evicted person. I am now trying to sell my property but it has been pointed out that the two titles are now defective as they need to be in single ownership and until this is the case I will have a problem selling. Does anyone know how I can rectify this problem, the freehold owner for the downstairs property will not help at all as he should of been transferred both titles but wasn't.

Back to the drawing board.

When you purchased the maisonette did you instruct a solicitor to carry out the conveyancing transaction on your behalf?

If so (I expect you did) did that solicitor make you aware of any potential legal issues?

When you purchase a leasehold property your solicitor must look into the freehold status.

How long ago did you purchase the property?

Di

[Crazy council]

Re: Freehold title problems

Hi

I phoned my friend and bugged him over this last night. He suggests :

Check your and the GFF lease to see if its a cross over lease type, ( basic roof and drains with provision for flooring ceiling repairs ) he said becuase if it is, there may be another issue ( not for you, and sortable ).

Then your lease, and who owns it currently.

There may have been some mistakes around the conveyancing of the GFF, especially around the repossession and the leases, you need to check if the mortgagee ( person that got repo ) was registered against the leases, both leases, when she purchased the property . ( likely if its a crossover lease ). If thats the case, the old owner would still be registered as the lease owner only on paper, as long as the mortgagee co did there paperwork properly at the repo. And the lease would be in limbo at the moment, with the paperwork at the mortgagee co's solicitors

Option 2 Old owner still is legal owner due to convayoncing mistakes Still not straight forward, if this is the case, you need to go through the buildings insurance to check its valid, and its probably a conveyancing issue from when the person that got repo'd, original purchased,

Option 3 ( possibly unlikely but not impossible ) That the original owner that got repo'd, set up the leases separate the the mortgagee, ( at some point afterwards ) and still owns the lease.

http://www.propertyinvestmentproject...ssover-leases/

[kmc1207]

Re: Freehold title problems

I bought flat 122a in 1999 1 leasehold title for 122a, 2 freehold titles held by Mr JB who lived downstairs 122
2003 downstairs 122 sold to A & DA and both freehold titles transferred to them and 1 leasehold title for 122.
2005 Barclays bank repossessed dowstairs 122 from A & DA
2005 Downstairs 122 sold to ME leasehold title transferred but only one of the freehold titles for 122. Upstairs FH title remained in the name of A & DA. ME was unaware of this and started charging me ground rent as he assumed he was freeholder to both upstairs and down. He also asked me at this time if I wanted to extend my lease as it was getting quite low I refused.
2007 downstairs property 122 sold to SM and new lease created for him. Freehold title for 122 still held by ME.
2014 I wrote to ME to ask if he would extend my lease as I was moving into sheltered accommodation due to failing health and I needed to sell my property. He ignored all forms of communication
2015 My daughther telephoned the land registry who informed us that ME was not my freeholder but is was still A & DA who was repossessed in 2005
Traced DA through electoral roll who was now widowed and still in the area she agreed to extend my lease for a premium of £20,000. At this point I didn't think there was a problem with having two different freeholders.
Marketed my property in Sept 2015 DA would receive her premium on completion and new buyer a new extended lease. sold it but the conveyance showed that the two different FH titles were for each respective flat therefore leaving them with defective titles and unmortgagable, althougth the flat downstairs has since been sold and also remortgaged by present owner.
When I purchased in 1999 I was not made aware there was two FH titles and I have now paid for my property but need to sell as it is now empty and my savings are tied up in it. I cannot live in it due to my health as it is on the first floor.
Upstairs FHolder DA will not hand over the FH title without me paying £20,000 premium and the downstairs FHolder ME will not take the title after this as there will be no value left in it.
My solicitor is the same solicitor who I used in 1999, he has now gone very quiet on me and I don't really know what to do

[kmc1207]

Re: Freehold title problems

Thank you for your reply. lLeases are not cross over. I think the repossessed persons name remains on FH title in error due to repossession. The problem I have is the downstairs freeholder who was charging me ground rent believed he was the freeholder and will not take the title from repossessed person because she will not hand it over until I pay the premium for it, and as I am on a low lease it will cost me £20,000. This would be fine if I could sell and pay her out of the proceeds but I am not able to sell with the titles the way they are. Would Barclays be able to help in anyway? I insure my property myself, I always have.

[Crazy council]

Re: Freehold title problems

Brilliant, just whats needed

It may take till the end of the week to get an opinion back from my buddies on this. I would guess, someones ( a solicitors ) made a conveyancing mistake, Its it three floors or more. I just have a feeling that conveyancing went wrong between mid 90s and 2005 rep, and that all of the solicitors, relied on the previous one doing the conveyancing properly.

Depending on the property type, ( 3 floors or less, london terrace type ) , it may to be some form of crossover lease originally ( not sure though ) , and could have been changed, if someone held all the tiles at one time,

One of the problems your going to face ( or new purchaser ),, is these type of leases usually have insurance conditions/terms with them ( roof and drains ).

If conveyancings fubar , then go back to the first registered leases, and work forward from there.