successors in title

[Wendyrjr]

Conveyance in 1982 under the Right to Buy scheme refers to the seller as the B..... District Council (correctly identifid)l. Nowhere does it say, or its successors in title. The purchaser is referred to as the purchaser and his successors in title. Under that conveyance, there are rights granted to the purchaser in respect of (inter alia) drainage of sewage, and giving the obligation to pay reasonable costs of repairing and maintaining the private sewage system. The current owners bought the house from the original RTB purchasers in 1988. A large capital charge of £3000 in respect of repairs was incurred by BDC in 2007, and this was invoiced to the current home owners in 2008 by BDC. BDC was transferred to the County Council in 2009 under the local government reorganisation, and a demand for payment of this historic sum was made by the County Council in 2013. In response, the owners queried the reasonableness of the sum claimed (yet again - there were many letters in 2006/7/8 regarding this). Because of this response by the home owners, we can't raise that the claim is time barred. Would it be possible to argue that the only body with rights under the original conveyance are BDC, and as they no longer exist, the County Council have no claim?

[Crazy council]

Re: successors in title

hi

BDC would have changed/been absorbed into County Council.

On the deeds, I dont get what your saying, its a bit to jumbeld up, are you claiming from the council or the council from you. What does the TRB have toi do with it

. A large capital charge of £3000 in respect of repairs was incurred by BDC in 2007, and this was invoiced to the current home owners in 2008

You will have to give much more detail on this, did the repair just affect one propety or others. exactly what was the repair ( surface or sub drainage ) who did the works ( council or water board )

[Wendyrjr]

Re: successors in title

Sorry to sound jumbled - i was trying to make a very long saga short, and it never works! The local council originally had 6 council houses tied into a private sewage plant, built and run by the council for the 6 houses (very rural area). In 1982, 5 of the houses were sold under the RTB legislation, and a right/covenant was inserted into each conveyance a right to use the sewage plant, with the obligation to pay reasonable charges. The current home owner bought from the original RTB purchaser in 1988, and the original RTB conveyance is included as part of the second conveyance. (now I will cut the story short - in 2006/7, the council upgraded the system and billed each house £3000. There were 2 years of meetings/complaints etc, but the bottom line is that the bill was not negotiated down and the home owner didn't pay it, and so the sum is still outstanding - any question re the reasonableness of the amount claimed can only be determined by RICS adjudicator/court). The original District council was merged into the County Council, and the outstanding amount came to their notice in 2013, and again they issued a demand, and the normal flurry of letters objecting to it on grounds of reasonableness were sent. All quiet. Now a further demand for payment has been made (in line with the Pre-action protocol) and needs to be answered. So, this Letter of Claim states ' we believe that you or your predecessor in title purchased the Property from the Council or its predecessor under the right to buy provisions....'. Yes, that is correct - but the conveyance to which it refers only refers to the District Council and no where refers to the District Council's successors in title - so can the County Council (are they a successor in title???) claim against the home owner for a debt which was due only to the District Council (where there is no reference to the successor in title), under the original deed/conveyance?
Not sure how much clearer that makes it!! Sorry

[Crazy council]

Re: successors in title

That better, i thought you ment they were just claiming from one, 3k each ( 5 or 6 property's ),

In 2006/7 when they did the work, they would/should have offered other options as well, like sorting it yourself. this would have been the time to act. I dont think there is anyway you can avoid this, harsh as it seems,

[des8]

Re: successors in title

IMO you need to consult a specialist in conveyancing.
if the conveyance does not refer to seller and successors in title why should the seller's successors be able to sue for unsettled debts owing to seller, unless there had been an assignment of the debt?
Unless there was something about it in the transfer from the old BDC to the new CC.

[Wendyrjr]

Re: successors in title

Ah, Crazy council - you have opened a new can of worms there!!! Yes the 5 private residents, with the agreement and support of the local council set up a company and made arrangements to take over/replace the sewage works, and the council would then have been a one sixth party to the new works!! (i.e., the boot on the other foot!) The council then got very cold feet and pulled the plug and ended up compensating the 5 house holders substantially for their wasted costs!! In retrospect, both sides handled the communication badly, but the council were particularly inept and vindictive. The council carried out the work with no notice while the negotiations were under way, which in reality meant that the householders would have to pay the £3K bill as well as replacing the newly 'sorted' system (assuming they could also jump through the numerous hurdles the council were now desperately throwing up!!) The householders are now all going to go their own separate ways in respect of their sewage!! Hopefully this will leave the county council holding one very expensive baby for their last house!!! (and yes, I appreciate we will all be paying through the council tax for their incompetence - what a surprise!)
But back to the current issue, I think des8's suggestion/comment is confirming what I was hunting around for in my inept way. So possibly, my original question should have been, does an assignment of debt in these circumstances (if in deed an assignment was ever made) have to be notified to the debtor? I do agree we need to approach a specialist conveyancer on this point, but any experience of these local authority mergers may be of interest. Many thanks to you both for your contributions.

[Crazy council]

Re: successors in title

hi, just putting the dates in line

In 1982, 5 of the houses were sold under the RTB legislation, and a right/covenant was inserted into each conveyance a right to use the sewage plant, with the obligation to pay reasonable charges

The current home owner bought from the original RTB purchaser in 1988, and the original RTB conveyance is included as part of the second conveyance

in 2006/7, the council upgraded the system and billed each house £3000.

Firslty,, covenants that affect a number of property ( like this ) are usually quite strict, especially when it involves drainage, But, ( just read, the other details you added will deffinatly make a difference. ) i just read this bit

The council then got very cold feet and pulled the plug and ended up compensating the 5 house holders substantially for their wasted costs!! In retrospect, both sides handled the communication badly, but the council were particularly inept and vindictive. The council carried out the work with no notice while the negotiations were under way, which in reality meant that the householders would have to pay the £3K bill as well as replacing the newly 'sorted' system

Because its drainage, the council may have been force to act ( repair ) due to further damage to drains, roadways. but, because of how they acted with the other 5 houses, then possibly you could fight this out, would need to have a look through the paperwork properly