Tenancy agreement and water bills

[TheLuckiest]

Hi guys
Bit of a funny one but here goes..

My girlfriend is going to be handing in her notice on her rented house in the near future so we've just been looking over her tenancy agreement.

I noticed it says..

"The landlord will pay the water charges for the property..."

There's no mention of water charges under the tenant obligations. However, my girlfriend has been paying water rates the whole time she's been there which is about 4 years!

Where would she stand legally with this? Would she be entitled to this money back from the landlord? Over 4 years it adds up to a fair amount!

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[Amethyst]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

If she has been making the payments over 4 years of her tenancy it has likely implied acceptance of a change in the agreement. However it doesn't hurt to bring it up with the Landlord - could be useful if he/she wants to withhold the deposit for any reason. Are relations generally okay between her and the LL ?

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Relations are extremely good with the landlord. It's a private rent and the deposit is just a token amount (£200).

[R0b]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

You could potentially look at restitution, your claim would be an action for money that has been paid to a third party and the as a result the defendant has received the benefit of this an is unjustly enriched by not paying the water bill. Was there any indication from the LL or agent that they would be paying the water charges e.g. on the advertisement or any communication?

[Crazy council]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Could both have been paying.

Water gas and leccy had a tenancy to try and charge every name they have had registered at a property, . LLs sometime include water because its hard to divide up usage and charges between shared mains in or insurance cover

I would check to see if both have been paying the water company. Check that its not registered as 2 adresses on there systems

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

You could potentially look at restitution, your claim would be an action for money that has been paid to a third party and the as a result the defendant has received the benefit of this an is unjustly enriched by not paying the water bill. Was there any indication from the LL or agent that they would be paying the water charges e.g. on the advertisement or any communication?

There was no advertisement. To give a bit of background, my girlfriend initially rented a room from the landlord when the landlord still lived there. When the landlord moved out, my gf rented the property under this agreement and arrangements were made between them to transfer bills to my gf's name.

[R0b]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Well, Crazy Council made a good point in checking with the water company to see if there are two addresses on the system as both of you could have been paying. If that be the case then I would think liability would fall with the water co. and not the landlord. If only 1 address on the system then restitution may be an option, but as pointed out by Amethyst the the LL could argue implied acceptance, although not sure how far that argument wold go if it was agreed that the bills transfer and the LL knew he/she should have been paying it but instead transferred to you in the hope that you wouldn't notice.

Limitation period on restitution is 6 years, although it can be 6 years from the point you became aware of it which might extend the limitation period in bringing a claim. To avoid any complicated arguments on whether you would be out of time, i would suggest you go 6 years from the date of the first payment being made - that is if you decide to go down the court route.

Perhaps a gentle discussion with the LL if you have good relations and see if there is any explanation on this.

[Crazy council]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

AAAhh,

So, her tenancy would have changed from a room tenancy to full house tenancy, but there was no new contract signed. I doubt you could claim the LL owed the water under these curcs. As the original room tenancy would not be valid after she took responsibility for the full home, and therefor, i suspect, the tenancy would be classed as standard assured short hold tenancy ( AST ) , and within the standard terms are conditions that the bills must be paid by the occupiers.

This is not a deffinat, because when tenancy contracts arent done properly, or served properly, or there are problems over the validity, then its sometimes who can put the best argument in front of the court.. but a lot of the time in court dealing with tenancy , as long as both sides have acted reasonably, judges tend to apply AST terms with a fair amount of common sence.

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

AAAhh,

So, her tenancy would have changed from a room tenancy to full house tenancy, but there was no new contract signed. I doubt you could claim the LL owed the water under these curcs. As the original room tenancy would not be valid after she took responsibility for the full home, and therefor, i suspect, the tenancy would be classed as standard assured short hold tenancy ( AST ) , and within the standard terms are conditions that the bills must be paid by the occupiers.

This is not a deffinat, because when tenancy contracts arent done properly, or served properly, or there are problems over the validity, then its sometimes who can put the best argument in front of the court.. but a lot of the time in court dealing with tenancy , as long as both sides have acted reasonably, judges tend to apply AST terms with a fair amount of common sence.

Sorry I re-read my reply and I wasn't clear. There was a definitely a new tenancy agreement signed from the date she became the sole occupant, and it is this agreement which states the LL will pay the water charges.

[Crazy council]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

There was a definitely a new tenancy agreement signed from the date she became the sole occupant, and it is this agreement which states the LL will pay the water charges

got you, sorry yes i miss understood, The LL would definitely be responsible for the water charges under them curcs. Its still worth checking if both we're paying, or has he said he has not paid it.

[TheLuckiest]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

got you, sorry yes i miss understood, The LL would definitely be responsible for the water charges under them curcs. Its still worth checking if both we're paying, or has he said he has not paid it.

Hadn't occurred that they might both have been paying. Wouldn't we have expected to see bills in the LL name in that case? Unless they were sorting bills online I suppose. Presume that if LL had been paying we should be able to claim all bills back from water Co?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Hi guys
Bit of a funny one but here goes..

My girlfriend is going to be handing in her notice on her rented house in the near future so we've just been looking over her tenancy agreement.

I noticed it says..

"The landlord will pay the water charges for the property..."

There's no mention of water charges under the tenant obligations. However, my girlfriend has been paying water rates the whole time she's been there which is about 4 years!

Where would she stand legally with this? Would she be entitled to this money back from the landlord? Over 4 years it adds up to a fair amount!

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• Edit Post

The land lord's covenant (agreement) with your girlfriend included a term (ie express term) that the LL is to pay for water rates. Therefore there is an express agreement and the only remedy is to deduct the amount for water from any monies owed to the LL or the LL returns the monies out of his pocket, so to speak. There is no 3rd party claim against the water company as this would apply where he or she were not a party to the original contract. As the LL has benefited by the tenant's 'mistake' the LL must return the benefit from his or her unjust enrichment.

[Crazy council]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Therefore there is an express agreement and the only remedy is to deduct the amount for water from any monies owed to the LL or the LL returns the monies out of his pocket, so to speak.

errr, you cant just decide to not pay rent and duke it out, without understanding the rest of the terms of the contract, this could be bad, especially if the terms of the contract allow the LL to charge fees for late/missing rent. Also, if the terms say the LL will pay the water, or the Water will be taken out of the rent, would have differnt meanings and would be handled differetly.

It sounds like this could be sorted more cordially with the LL if you all get on. and theirs a chance that both have been paying

[Amethyst]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

Relations are extremely good with the landlord. It's a private rent and the deposit is just a token amount (£200).

In that case I would bring it up in a friendly way with the Landlord, see what the response is, and go from there. Could be they have been paying too, or they just used some shoddy template agreement and never realised that the part about water was in there - When the rental was taken was the water being paid by the landlord a consideration in whether to enter into the tenancy ? I suspect it probably wasn't noticed or discussed at all.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Tenancy agreement and water bills

errr, you cant just decide to not pay rent and duke it out, without understanding the rest of the terms of the contract, this could be bad, especially if the terms of the contract allow the LL to charge fees for late/missing rent. Also, if the terms say the LL will pay the water, or the Water will be taken out of the rent, would have differnt meanings and would be handled differetly.

It sounds like this could be sorted more cordially with the LL if you all get on. and theirs a chance that both have been paying

Although you technically, and very well legally, could reduce your rent to cover for the just enrichment I am not and would not suggest doing this. I am instead implying that the tenant has a word (in a nice way) with the LL and explain why they would like LL to return the water rates money back to them.