Kicked off of common land

[Batista230]

Today I drove my car up on top of Birkbeck fell common
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.46...-2.6717342,17z
As you can see from the above link there is a road to it. The road is not tarmac or concrete it is hard core.
To get right up on the fell you must first go through an unlocked closed gate.
As I drove down this track on top of the fell there where 2 game keepers parked up that followed me on.
I stopped to talk to him and he started ranting on saying this is private land and you have no right to be hear.
I said its common land and I have the right to Roam hear, he said you are not a commoner a commoner is an estates owner.
He said this road is private. I said there is no sings to say private property private road keep out so therefore I presume this is a public road.
He said there dose not need to be a sing up stating its a private road its up to you to find out first weather you are on private land or not, not up to us to tell you.

Anyway I drove off and left as I was leaving the estate owner Lord Lowther was coming across in his car, he opened the window and said this is private property I said that is what the game keeper told me but I was under the impression it was common land no he said its privet.

I have not been able to find much info out on the net only this https://www.gov.uk/common-land-village-greens
But I am prity sure with a name like birkbeck fell common its common land, as there are foot paths all over this particular fell

Do I have the right to roam hear with my car or not?

[Kati]

Re: Kicked off of common land

Do I have the right to roam hear with my car or not?

I don't think so - https://www.gov.uk/right-of-way-open...-right-to-roam

You can use access land for walking, running, watching wildlife and climbing.

There are certain activities you can’t usually do on open access land, including:
horse-riding
cycling
camping
taking animals other than dogs on to the land
driving a vehicle (except a mobility vehicle)
water sports

[Batista230]

Re: Kicked off of common land

But it also states that
You can access some land across England without having to use paths - this land is known as ‘open access land’ or ‘access land’.
But this is a path or a road we are talking about

[nemesis45]

Re: Kicked off of common land

But it also states that
You can access some land across England without having to use paths - this land is known as ‘open access land’ or ‘access land’.
But this is a path or a road we are talking about

Access yes but not in a motor vehicle which may (and usually does) damage the pathways and surrounding land. [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] is spot on with this!!

nem

[Batista230]

Re: Kicked off of common land

What Im trying to say is, the link is referring to no access via a motor vehicle on open access land which is off the path
Meaning the link dose not state that you can't use a motor vehicle on a path only off of the path

[Kati]

Re: Kicked off of common land

but ... is the land open access, or is it excepted land?

On access land some areas remain private (‘excepted land’). You don’t have the right to access these areas, even if they appear on a map of open access land.

Excepted land includes:
houses, buildings and the land they’re on (eg courtyards)
land used to grow crops
building sites and land that’s being developed
parks and gardens
golf courses and racecourses
railways and tramways
working quarries

Use public rights of way to cross excepted land.

or just owned by the guy who stopped you?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Kicked off of common land

Do I have the right to roam hear with my car or not?

This is a bit of a contradiction, the right to roam refers to walking, not driving your car: http://www.ramblers.org.uk/~/media/F...tSheet-FS8.pdf

The right gives walkers the freedom to roam over wide areas of land, using anypath or even walking off the path if they wish.

CRoW only provides a right of access on foot.

Schedule 2 of CRoW provides a lengthy listof activities not covered by the new right, including using a vehicle (except an invalid carriage)

Any person undertaking any of these activities without permission on access land will be regarded as being a trespasser on that land

[Batista230]

Re: Kicked off of common land

but ... is the land open access, or is it excepted land?
Sorry I dont know what the difference is

or just owned by the guy who stopped you?
As far as I am aware it belongs to the Lowther estate.
I was stopped by the game keeper and someone shooting there who I have been told is not Lord Lowther

Let me put it at a different angle.
I went past there again today and on the gate where I drove past before it says 'public bridleway'
And I checked the ordnance survey map and it is a path of some description
So we are talking about a public bridleway on open access or excepted land

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Kicked off of common land

I went past there again today and on the gate where I drove past before it says 'public bridleway'
And I checked the ordnance survey map and it is a path of some description
So we are talking about a public bridleway on open access or excepted land

Bridleways are public rights of way but not intended for motor vehicles: http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=207

BridlewaysThese are meant for walkers, horseriders and bycyclists. Bicyclists are expected to give way to walkers and horseriders.

[seduraed]

Re: Kicked off of common land

The countryside and rights of way act 2000 as amended will give you access to common land but on foot or bicycle or horseback . So you could have parked safely and walked around the common or indeed had a picnic there. There are limited "rights to roam" on mountains moorland and similar . However these all apply to walking not motor vehicles.
If some one was shooting then there are extremely strict rules about discharging firearms with a certain distance of a right of way . 50 metres come to mind , nor can you discharge a firearm across a ROW(Right of way). If the bridleway had been closed temporarily for shooting then a closure is needed from the local council and should be available at the site of the closure.

In summary right to roam applies to walkers , and horse riders. It applied to moorland mountaintops and certain other area. There is the anomaly that the right to roam exist even on land to which there is no legal public access. Access to footpaths and bridleway is limited to non motorised vehicles. Only walkers are permitted to use footpaths, walkers cyclists and horse riders may use a bridleway. If you want to use your car to roam you will need to find a public byway or somewhere where the landowner allows green laneing.

[Kati]

Re: Kicked off of common land

http://www.gleam-uk.org/guidance/enf...nerc-act-2006/

1. In respect of driving on footpaths, bridleways or RBs, the following measures apply:

2. RTA 1988 s34 which reads in part [Full text of s34 is at Appendix 1] :
“(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle -
onto or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or
on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway,

he is guilty of an offence.

[nemesis45]

Re: Kicked off of common land

http://www.gleam-uk.org/guidance/enf...nerc-act-2006/

Says it all I think!!

nem

[Batista230]

Re: Kicked off of common land

Well I guess that is that then it is unlawfull for me to do it

If the bridleway had been closed temporarily for shooting then a closure is needed from the local council and should be available at the site of the closure.
Sorry I dont know what you mean by where I can find this information out


http://www.gleam-uk.org/guidance/enf...nerc-act-2006/
Reading that link would imply that it is a criminal offence to drive my motor on a bridleway
But I am sure I read a .gov link before that if you are driving a motor vehicle on common land then it is classed as trespassing, making it a civil matter

But if we look at it in a different angle
We are talking about a road, that road may of been there for 2000 years but it was always a road and still is a road
When they build a motorway though a farmers field the farmer then dose not own the land on the motorway he ownes the land ever side
Same as Lord Lowther, he dose not own the bridleway he owns the common land on ever side
As long as I don't step onto his land it is non of his business what I do on that road and he has no right to see me off
as I am not roaming on his common land I am on the road.
He is well within his rights to report me to the police or council for using the road unlawfully (driving a motor vehicle on it)
But he has no right to tell me it is private land and to ask me to leave, it is not his land!
Do you thing I am correct or not?

[judgemental24]

Re: Kicked off of common land

I do know the police prosecute people in their off road vehicle in national parks. They are common land but maintained at public expense

The same can be said for a bridleway across a farmers field. The farmer will do the upkeep of the bridleway at his own expense

The countryside is to be respected, if people wish to go off road then they should go to dedicated sites

Not having a pop at off road users but if i was walking my dog across a bridleway etc, i would not wish to be met by a 4x4.

You also have to respect the wildlife and farm animals

[PAWS]

Re: Kicked off of common land

I am probably about to upset a few people but ‘here goes’.
Common land and public rights of way should be available but any straying from the regular use has to be nipped in the bud. The roadway or lane is there for access for the person who ‘works’ the land and the fact that it is also a bridleway, right of way or common path should not mean anyone can use it for any purpose.
This is not just about one motor vehicle quietly trundling along a country lane. If you allow this one vehicle then there is a very strong possibility you will wind up with hordes of people driving all around the place and totally destroying the area. This landowner may be taking a very firm line simply because he is fed up with having to deal with this issue. I know this is a big ask but try to understand his point of view. You will not be the first person he has had to tackle and he knows you will not be the last.
Except for a couple of years at uni, I have always lived in the countryside and sometimes in very remote areas. One landowner we know allowed a local chap and his son to ride their trials bikes on his land. It is a large estate with excellent terrain for trials bikes and it seemed harmless enough. Within weeks this chap had invited all his biker friends to race around the estate. They ploughed up a beautiful bluebell wood. Their families also turned up to watch the fun and had picnics leaving piles of rubbish everywhere. The noise became unbearable.
Friends of ours worked their guts out to buy a house with a few acres by a river. At first they turned a blind eye to people walking their dogs along their land but word spread and they found that their field was packed especially on sunny days with kids in the river and even campers pitching up. They eventually had to build high fences and stick up signs which ruined the view. Soon the signs and fence were knocked down and they piled back in. When challenged they argued their right to roam and access to rural areas accusing the owners of being stingy and mean spirited.
I could go on and on about dog faeces causing cows to abort and dog owners allowing their dogs to chase sheep, even when they are in lamb laughing it off with an ‘oh he won’t hurt them’. I could go on about the landowners who have allowed motorised access to their land then discovered a caravan parked up for the night. Many of us know of once beautiful common land that has been ruined by people turning it into a playground or camp site.
I could go on and on. Once word gets out that people can drive through a certain area then it becomes packed. Now I do believe we should all have access to the countryside and we cannot simply pull up the drawbridge when we move to a rural area but it is hard to watch people turning beautiful areas into dumps and wasteland. I would love to say the minority ruin it but I am afraid that in my many, many years of living in the country I have seen more abuse than respect.