NTQ and Dates

[beachcomber]

Hi,

I had an NTQ from my landlord. I need to stretch out the time before I move out, and I wondered; if the landlord dated the expiry (exit) date incorrectly is the NTQ invalid?

The Exit date on the NTQ was based on the date the landlord signed the document, not the date it was served. It was served 1 week later.

So does anyone know if this

A. This just adds one week to the the NTQ expiry (exit) date? Or,
B. Does this mean the NTQ is not executed properly, thus invalid, thus needs reissuing?

It suggests below (point 5) that if the dates are wrong, the NTQ is not valid. If that is true, when does one notify the Landlord that it does not comply...leaving it to the last day would give me the maximum time but is that wise?
http://www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/adv...tice-is-valid/

Any advise would be great.

Beachcomber

[Kati]

Re: NTQ and Dates

[MENTION=15129]Crazy council[/MENTION] might be able to advise you here xx

[Crazy council]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Will check in the morning and get back to you. The notice has to be served on you before the time scale starts, but, consider that, for the landlord to take you to court, it will take a minimum of 14 days after the expiration date, so, by the time your at court, the notice would have expired anyhow.

[beachcomber]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Will check in the morning and get back to you. The notice has to be served on you before the time scale starts, but, consider that, for the landlord to take you to court, it will take a minimum of 14 days after the expiration date, so, by the time your at court, the notice would have expired anyhow.

Thanks Crazy Council - I appreciate your response.

NB, this is in Scotland in case that makes a difference. The notice was served after time scale started by I think 7 days (left docs at my folks). EG:

NTQ Signed: 25/07/15
Exit date: 25/09/15 (two months after date on NTQ)
Served 01/08/15 (one week after signed thus exit date is incorrect and should have been 01/10/15)

So I was thinking that, if the date error means the notice is invalid / incorrectly executed, he would need to reissue the NTQ, which would restart the 2 month clock? That is, the exit date would not automatically move forward by 7 days to 01/10/15, it is in fact void because he put the wrong date down?

Thus, I was going to notify the landlord with one or so weeks before the (Incorrect? exit date) so that I get an extra 2 months before he can move to evict? But clearly I'm playing with legal definitions...so I need to be clear I am in the right, can prove it, and that this will not backfire!

I am out of contract at the moment and playing for time. The Landlord has given me an NTQ as I asked them to maintain the flat...clearly a bad move on my part! The Maintenance issue is now a lost battle, but if I can stay in the flat as long as possible it would help me till new contract starts. As he has not been maintaining the flat, I I'm not to worried about going to court. Whilst I know leaving the flat is now inevitable, I have everything logged for the last three years to show that the landlord was not running the lease as he should, so that may come in handy.

But it's more about staying here as long as I can just now. My friend sugested I don't pay any more rent. Given this NTQ is the result of me asking for maintenance, I'm inclined to agree with my mate - the Judge would factor this in for any claim on arrears surely? It's all well documented.

Beachcomber

[Crazy council]

Re: NTQ and Dates

NB, this is in Scotland in case that makes a difference

Am not sure but the rules are different up there.

I did check, my friend confirmed that it does make it technically invalid ( in England at least ), he is just not sure of what a judge would make of it.

[MissFM]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Have a shufti here: http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_a...f_your_tenancy (or follow links if wrong bit)

Check all your options:

Speak to a Shelter Scotland adviser

Call Shelter Scotland's free housing advice helpline

0808 800 4444
9am-5pm, Monday to Friday

x

[beachcomber]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Thanks Crazy and Miss FM.

Got another question. If the landlord served two NTQs (including Notice of proceedings AT6) where; The first NTQ gave 2 months notice, then the second one (a week later) gave 2 weeks notice, which NTQ would be valid? I'm assuming it's the first NTQ but I don't know.

In the second NTQ, the landlord removed one of the "grounds" listed in the first NTQ. By removing this original "Ground", the landlord can now apply the two week notice period...in theory. I guess the landlord read the rules about NTQs and Notice of proceedings (form AT6) and regrets inserting one of the grounds in the first NTQ that made it a mandatory 2 month notice period.

Anyone dealt with this before? I would be surprised if a landlord is allowed to change their mind like that? They signed and dated the first NTQ which clearly gave 2 months notice.

The key point is paragraph 8 on page 7:

NOTICE TO BE GIVEN TO THE TENANT
8. The amount of notice which you must give between the serving of Notice AT6 and the
raising of proceedings in court depends on the ground or grounds on which you are seeking
possession. If any of grounds 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 and 17 apply, whether with or without other grounds,
you must give 2 months notice. You must also give 2 months notice if you are seeking
repossession of a short assured tenancy under Section 33 of the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988.
If only other grounds apply, you need give only 2 weeks notice.

You can see the document here: http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/__dat.../23154/AT6.pdf

I'm going to have to go to shelter to discuss this, but would appreciate any input before hand so that I have a little bit of a clue.

Kind regards

beachcomber

[Crazy council]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Hi

what grounds did they use on the NTC,

[MissFM]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Looking at all that, it seems pretty similar to the Sec 21 & sec 8 notices we have south of the border.

The 2-month notice grounds all would automatically go through provided that they were served absolutely correctly (just one area where Shelter will be hugely helpful), whereas the 2-week grounds seem to all carry the implication that the tenant has contravened the tenancy agreement.

I'm sorry to say that I think the 2-week one will supercede the previous 2-month one (others may disagree) - BUT the LL will have to prove his grounds to the satisfaction of the Sheriff. I would imagine you will have the chance to put your case, too. There's a chance that the two notices and the removal of a ground which requires the full two months notice might provoke suspicion, as you suggest.

Also, do note that many of the grounds only apply if you were informed of it, in writing, before the tenancy began

This ground will apply only if you gave the tenant notice in writing before the beginning of the tenancy that

possession might be recovered on this ground.

Are the grounds he states accurate in your opinion? x

[beachcomber]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Good Morning Miss FM and Crazy,

Thanks again for your responses. So, I spoke to Shelter yesterday. They want me to take them to a solicitor to check. Have an appointment for Monday.

Miss FM: I think your right, changing the ground raises an eyebrow, but one is then leaving it to the Judge and it's the whole unknown in this situation that is very unsettling.

I'll update you as I know more.

Have a good weekend!

Beach

[beachcomber]

Re: NTQ and Dates

Hi there,

I thought I would give you an update. Solicitor said both NTQs are invalid, however LL has now gone to court. I received a Summons. LL is claiming back rent and possession of the property.

I am now considering counter suing the Landlord for rent Abatement for the period that he did not fix the flat. The period is quite a long (1764 days).

Does anyone possibly have a reference to an example of a fair (i.e. court would agree is reasonable) calculation for this, for example abatement on the rental amount per day (e.g. £100/day) as follows:
daily % for loss of use of sink,
daily % for smell and hygiene
daily % for partial loss of use of bathroom
daily % for compensation for hassle of it all

Rent paid to the LL over the 5 years accumulates to just over £30,000.00 so it's quite a big sum.

Any ideas?