Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

[frisp]

Long story short

1. Mortgage with NR runs out 1 Apr
2. Due to 2 CCJs their underwriters will not offer me a further deal and insist I go onto their - pound of flesh - variable rate which I cant afford.
3. B4 the underwriters got involved I was offered a deal @ 6.49% * 6.99% which I can afford.
4. The CCJs contain charges and have moody agreements so I could get them set aside were it not for the OFT court case and lacking the spare cash to take the actions to court.
5. Ive sent NR an offer of payment stating I cant (why wont my apostrophe key work) afford their variable rate and asked for reduced payments until such time as I can get the CCJs removed.
6. I've started drafting the POC to get the CCJs set aside, might need help with them in order later on.

Looking at these sell and rent back deals does anyone know of reputable organisations doing this sort of thing. I've heard a few horror stories so would like to know more before committing to this.

[Celestine]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

Frisp....Please don't touch ANY sell and rent back company. The key problem at present with these companies is that they are totally UNREGULATED.
I too have heard horror stories and I believe there are plans to regulate this industry....but till then.......there are no guarantees that they wont simply evict you as soon as they wish.

Good luck on your negotiations with Northern Rock.

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

Anyone heard of this organisation, they are recommended by the UK Insolvency Helpline

DFD Mortgages Limited

[Guest]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

I would have to echo Celestine's comments regarding sell and rent back. In the vast majority of cases, your house would not be purchased by a company, but by a private individual and in many cases they simply move you out to sell your house on again for a profit. They can do this because the most you will ever get is 80 - 85% of it's true value. They buy it from you, then kick you out and realise a profit when they sell it again, sometimes within as little as a few weeks.

Regarding the CCJ's, time is of essence. You must apply to have a CCJ set aside promptly or your application will fail.

If you cannot afford the fees right now, then complete and file an EX160 which allows that fees can be waived or at least reduced. In order to qualify for remission you need only demonstrate that if you paid the whole fee you would suffer financial hardship.

Even though they may not be exempt from paying a fee but think you would suffer financial hardship if you did pay it, you are entitled to apply for a remission. At all times Court staff must ensure that they meet the statutory obligation contained in s.92(3) of the Courts Act 2003 of protecting access to justice.

"(3) When including any provision in an order under this section, the Lord Chancellor must have regard to the principle that access to the courts must not be denied."

The exemption and remission applies to all fees, not just the fees for the N1, but also the AQ, N244 etc.

The test for remission is based on both income and expenditure—it takes full account of all of a person's commitments and liabilities not just how much money they have or receive.

This is not means tested, it does not matter what you earn. What matters is whether or not the fee for filing your claim will cause you financial hardship. That means right now, when you need to file it. If you do not have the money to file your claim then that qualifies you for remission.

By law you are entitled to access to justice as and when you need it - not just when you have some spare cash.

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

I would have to echo Celestine's comments regarding sell and rent back. In the vast majority of cases, your house would not be purchased by a company, but by a private individual and in many cases they simply move you out to sell your house on again for a profit. They can do this because they most you will ever get is 80 - 85% of it's true value. They buy it from you, then kick you out and realise a profit when they sell it again, sometimes within as little as a few weeks.

Regarding the CCJ's, time is of essence. You must apply to have a CCJ set aside promptly or your application will fail.

If you cannot afford the fees right now, then complete and file an EX160 which allows that fees can be waived or at least reduced. In order to qualify for remission you need only demonstrate that if you paid the whole fee you would suffer financial hardship.

Even though they may not be exempt from paying a fee but think you would suffer financial hardship if you did pay it, you are entitled to apply for a remission. At all times Court staff must ensure that they meet the statutory obligation contained in s.92(3) of the Courts Act 2003 of protecting access to justice.

"(3) When including any provision in an order under this section, the Lord Chancellor must have regard to the principle that access to the courts must not be denied."

The exemption and remission applies to all fees, not just the fees for the N1, but also the AQ, N244 etc.

The test for remission is based on both income and expenditure—it takes full account of all of a person's commitments and liabilities not just how much money they have or receive.

This is not means tested, it does not matter what you earn. What matters is whether or not the fee for filing your claim will cause you financial hardship. That means right now, when you need to file it. If you do not have the money to file your claim then that qualifies you for remission.

By law you are entitled to access to justice as and when you need it - not just when you have some spare cash.

Good info thanx a lot.

The CCJs are 2 yrs old and I'm asking for them to be set aside as I did not receive a default notice plus the amount contains charges so I no longer agree the amount of the claim

[Guest]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

I have to be blunt with you, the time to apply for a set aside is long gone. By all means apply but I would be astonished if you are granted a hearing let alone the set aside. It is simply far too late.

In the circumstances, you could challenge the CCJ's with the companies who applied for them and have them send you certificates of satisfaction and then provide those to the underwriters - I seriously doubt that you will get them set aside now.

[Celestine]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

I'd have to agree with Cet there.
Many thousands of people are unaware of defaults or CCJs. They may well have been incorrectly served, but 2 years on, there will be little you can do to challenge them on that basis alone.
You can still attempt to recover the unlawful charges from the companies direct. I assume that these 'debts' have not been settled, so any recovered funds would probably be credited against the debt.

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

Thanx peeps

This is quite disappointing and goes quite against the advice given on the Insolvency UK website. 3 & 9 are the applicable points.

Removal of CCJ's - Valid reasons to have your judgments set aside

We have listed quite a few valid reasons below.

1. Were you given 28 days notice in order to pay?
2. Were you living at the address when the summons and judgement took place?
3. If you took out a loan or any form of credit were you in receipt of the Default Notice before receiving the summons.
4. Did you receive the summons? They are not sent by recorded mail.
5. Maybe you were unable to attend court and defend yourself.
6. The judgement should not appear on the credit files if it was paid up within 28 days.
7. If you agreed to settle 'out of court' with the plaintiff you should not have received a Judgment.
8. If you did not receive any notification of the judgment/s made against you, then you can appeal.
9. Did you agree with the full amount of the judgment at the time, but now only agree with part of the amount?
10. Was the summons taken out against both yourself and another person jointly. If this is so, did you both receive your summons?
11. It could have been that you were away from the time between the issue of the summons and entry of the judgment?
12. Did you receive the summons on time for you to apply to the court. You have 21 days to reply to the court. If the summons was 21 days late then the judgment would have already been taken out against you?
13. Did somebody use your name or address to obtain credit, which resulted in a County Court judgment without you knowing?

I can't see either of the organisations HFC or CL Finance giving me Certs of Satisfaction just cause I ask for them.

This seems discriminatory as they were obtained at a time before I knew my rights, they would certainly not have got them today.

All I want is the judge to set aside the current CCJs, he can instruct both the parties to have another go for the real amounts using the correct process. My case revolves around their in attention to detail in pursuing the case.

[Celestine]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

It may well be worth giving it a shot, the most you can lose will be court fees (if you have to pay them)

I think the two year timescale is one problem. I also think that the judge would only begin to consider a set aside if you clear the portion of the debt you agree is fair.

One odd thing I have heard......not 100% sure of.
During the period in which your application is being considered all records of judgements against you are removed from the records of credit reference agencies. Then several more weeks usually pass before the agencies can re-instate these details, so even if your application is unsuccessful you have a period of around 8 weeks where you have no CCJ’s on record. Many use this window of opportunity to apply for any finance that they may require.

Has anyone else heard of this?

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

thanks Celestine

I've put note of correction on my CR regarding the CCJs stating I dispute them and why them but they're as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

I'm not going to pay the claims off as the agreement for HFC is almost certainly unenforceable and the store card one is most definitely. I've a filled in my n244 with the following witness statement - comments changes welcome.

1.With respect to the claim, it is denied that I am liable to the claimant as stated in the claim, or at all:
a.Having requested a copy of the credit agreement, which has (thus far) not been produced by the claimant (nor the original creditor) I put the claimant to strict proof that such a document exists, in all respects compliant with the consumer credit act 1974.
In the absence of such a document, I deny that there has been any failure to make payment in accordance with any alleged contract.
b.The Claimant having failed to produce a copy of a properly executed credit agreement and in the absence of such an agreement, which conforms to sections 60 and 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is my assertion that no agreement has ever existed for there to have been a default condition to occur.
2.It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant.
3.I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach.
If the claimant sent a default notice that includes unlawful/excessive charges, this default notice is invalid under English law for the reason that it is inaccurate and so the claimant may not seek to enforce this debt.
4.During the period in which the Account was operating the original creditor (OC) debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied.
The defendant understands that the OC contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the defendant yet the claimant and the OC have singularly failed to produce an enforceable Consumer Credit agreement in relation to this account.
5.It is my assertion that the amount of the claim is inaccurate and I now disagree with the amount claimed as the amount contains unlawful charges;
6.Accordingly I put the Claimant to strict proof that every charge and collection charge made to the account was valid and lawful.

[Celestine]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

I think you need to clarify why the charges are unlawful rather than just stating that they are.

4.During the period in which the Account was operating the original creditor (OC) debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied.

This is where the OFT test case may make things awkward, but it would still be prudent to include reference to the relevant legislation. (UTCCR1999) etc.

Also, have you done a spreadsheet of the charges? The court would definitely wish to see a breakdown of the debt.

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

update

C L Finance have agreed that the store card CCJ was obtained without due process (no agreement) and have asked Ho ward & Co hen to apply to have the order set aside.

One down one to go.

Reached a temp accm with NR, they have agreed to allow a 3 month stay on claiming full amount of variable.

[scottishlass]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

well done Frisp. :tinysmile_grin_t:

[scoobydoo]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

Yes well done - hope you get the other one sorted.
Jan

[frisp]

Re: Caught between a Northern rock and a hard place

Update:

1. CL Finance have stated the court sent out the order setting aside the Store Card CCJ, as I said one down.
2. NR gave me 3 months stay which comes to the end of June, need some ideas that will make them back off further for a while

Stuff I've initiated

• Sent them a SAR, they been quick to provide a response but have failed to send me a copy of a key document, will their default help to delay things further
• I have an unsecured loan (2.5k) tied in with my mortgage payments, however this document was improperly executed (no Banks Signature, not a strong reason but they haven't questioned it yet) will this default help

If I initiate a FOS complaint will NR be able to take any punitive steps until the complaint is decided.

• I have told NR I cannot get the final CCJ removed as my case involves charges and a document that is unenforceable, the former means that I can't get a court date until after the FSA case has completed as all cases on charges have been stayed.
• I've also told them I'm trying to sell the house but the market is stagnant and I've had little interest.

Any ideas for inclusion in a letter to NR asking for another stay would be appreciated