guarantor problems

[hayleylouise]

Somebody please help me!

well over a year ago my father agreed to be a guarantor for my brothers fiance at the time. its been coming up for a year that they have split and gone seperate ways. my brother is now back living with my parents but unfortunately she has not moved out of the house and It has now been over 6 months that she has not payed her rent. which means the landlord/estate agents are now claiming £900 from my father. (my father is a hard working man that is struggling with his health as it is, but with this stress on top he is now getting worst, my mother is fearing that this will knock him over the edge) apparently she has received an eviction notice a few months back, but nothing more has been said. i know that he agreed to all this and has signed the contract. but she was family at the time and my father trusted her to pay the rent, and now she has done this to him. is there anything that he can do to get of the agreement or to stop this. or where can he go from here? someone please help me and my family.

thank you in advance.

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

Unfortunately this can be the consequence of signing a guarantee, I have seen others say that you should never guarantee sums that you can't afford to lose.

The change in the relationship status is immaterial I am afraid.

Is there any chance you can remove personal details and post a copy of the agreement your dad signed and we can between us try and dissect it.

Who has received an eviction notice, I imagined it was your brothers ex, but you mention it immediately after a comment about your mother.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, meant to say welcome! People will do their best to try and help you.

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

Thank you for your reply, I thought this may be the case but I thought to give it a shot anyway.

I will try and get a copy of it tomorrow and post it on here as i am at my own home at this moment.

and yes sorry my brothers ex has apparently has this eviction notice but have heard no more

and thank you again

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

Well, in one way it is in your dad's interests that she gets kicked out, at least it will prevent the amounts involved mounting up.

Is she in receipt of housing benefit and the £900 is the shortfall between the benefit and the amount due?

People will have a better idea (I'm no expert on guarantees) once they have seen the agreement.

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

it is yes.

she does receive housing benefit yes, and the £900 is the making up the odds as you said for the amount due, each month the amount seems to rise.

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

Steven is quite right, without sight of the original guarantee no one will be able to advise.

There are things to be examined to ensure this guarantee was properly executed as a deed and is not therefore governed by contract law.
Amendments to the underlying contract which the guarantee supports need the guarantors agreement. Have there been changes to the terms of the original lease? (is there a waiver in the guarantee allowing changes to rent etc?)
Have the landlords done all possible to reduce their losses eg why not evicted as soon as possible?
The guarantee is also subject to the Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

This is not to raise your expectations as Personal Guarantees are notoriously difficult to wriggle clear of, but without full knowledge it will be impossible to advise

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

Hello and thank you for your replied. I have a copy on me but I can't seem to post it on here 😕

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

in fact here is the copy of original agreement. i have noticed that it is only my dads signature at the end too, i don't know if that will help my dads case in any way?

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

Hmm, that MIGHT be a point.

Can you dad remember whether he signed more than one copy - typically he will have signed two.

Simple contracts can be executed in any number of "counterparts", that is to say each party can sign a separate but identical copy of the same agreement, which means it will still be binding.

However, that is ordinarily backed by a counterparts clause expressly providing for that - I am not sure whether the lack of that clause would operate so as to invalidate a counterpart unsigned on behalf of the landlord.
[MENTION=62240]dan_1207[/MENTION] is good at property - if I have learned how to operate this thing correctly tagging him like this should somehow draw this thread to his attention

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

he only signed this one, the copy he has is a photocopy of the original. so surely that would mean that they have not signed their side of the copy either, otherwise they would of signed it and then photocopied for my dad.

he is also guarantor for myself, so i compared the two papers. the one for mine (done by a different company) has a estate agent signature as well as a witness signature.

any help would be gratefully appreciated

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

The only chink I can see in this agreement is as follows.
Firstly it is a contract, and not a deed.
At the end the document states it needs to be signed and dated and the agreement ratified.
i) it is only signed by your father
ii) the signature is undated (although the first line of the agreement dates the document)
iii)there is no indication that the contract has been ratified

Whether or not at would allow repudiation would need other's input.

Was there a copy of the tenancy agreement attached to the guarantee agreement ?

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

The only chink I can see in this agreement is as follows.
Firstly it is a contract, and not a deed.
At the end the document states it needs to be signed and dated and the agreement ratified.
i) it is only signed by your father
ii) the signature is undated (although the first line of the agreement dates the document)
iii)there is no indication that the contract has been ratified

Whether or not at would allow repudiation would need other's input.

Was there a copy of the tenancy agreement attached to the guarantee agreement ?

It is a bit weird in that it is written as a simple contract but requires a witness which is normally only required of a Deed.

However, I think that is probably a red herring.

The Agreement is also drawn up directly between the Landlord personally but the attestation is by an Agent, not sure of the impact of that.

I don't think the lack of a date next to Dad's signature is important.

Where is [MENTION=62240]dan_1207[/MENTION] when you need him! (Or am I doing it wrong?)

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

Agree with all you say, Steve.
As it is a contract, the agreement is subject to UTCCR 1999.
The tenancy agreement should also be attached to this guarantee, so is (I think) also subject to UTCCR.
Hence we need copies to see if there is compliance.

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

Agree with all you say, Steve.
As it is a contract, the agreement is subject to UTCCR 1999.
The tenancy agreement should also be attached to this guarantee, so is (I think) also subject to UTCCR.
Hence we need copies to see if there is compliance.

Are you sure about this?

My reason for doubting is that the Guarantee Agreement is not a contract for the supply of goods or services as such and the terms of an AST are largely prescribed by law which I would have thought trumped the UTCCR.

I am by no means certain though and am probably straying outside my area of competence.

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

I did try checking that out (it was at the back of my mind) and got confirmation about UTCCR and guarantees.
"Where a guarantee is in a standard form, it will also be subject to the test of reasonableness under section 3 Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. If the guarantor is an individual consumer (rather than another company) the agreement will also be subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999."
It came from fsp-law.com (solicitors Field Seymour Parkes)

On reflection you're probably right about the AST terms, but there's no reason not to check them for errors, (check by those who know what to check.... not I!!)