Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Sorry Des8 has clarified that the deeds let me go onto .........[typo]

[des8]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

I would stop worrying about what the neighbour might or might not do, and just push to get the house done.
IMO any court would look at what has happened and the circumstances surrounding it and, if they grant an injunction for the scaffolding to be removed, it will probably have to be within a time frame eg two week. Any damages awarded for trespass are most likely to be nominal as the trespass was only temporary, caused little r no disruption to the neighbour and was for a good reason and not malicious. It will depend on the judge as to what happens about costs, but often each side is directed to bear their own cost.
I wouldn't consider counter suing as it only ratchets up the tension, and you will come across better in court if you are conciliatory

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Des8 - Good advice - thank you for summing it up so succinctly. If it goes to court I hope that the judge will take the same pragmatic view although I realise it depends on which judge you get! I am hoping that it is all bluff and bluster, demanding money with menaces almost and I've tried to look it logically but then you end up with all the 'what ifs' - so you're right I need to press on and wait and see what action they take. And perhaps get a good night's sleep rather than worrying about things.:tongue2:

Thank you for taking the time to reassure me. I will keep you posted. :juge:
Oops - been playing with the icons to cheer myself up and now don't know how to remove them!

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Latest developments:
-Damp problem addressed
-Scaffolding down
-No court injunction [emergency or otherwise] served to date
-Solicitor's letter states as we failed to respond to their request to enter into a scaffolding license they have received instructions to issue proceedings
-The claim form has been prepared and "were due to be issued today"
-Charming neighbours seeking an injunction remove scaffolding [already down] and damage for trespass and costs [a pretty penny it comes to!]
-Then the letter says if we don't agree to pay the costs outlined in their letter - they will instigate proceedings against me.
-Enclosed is the charming neighbour's sworn statement [which contains some untruths, omissions and distortion of facts!]

Letter concludes unless I agree to these terms, proceedings will be issued and I will be liable for further costs on top of those quoted in the letter.

Process:
-Obviously I don't have the funds to engage a solicitor so will defend myself. I presume I get an opportunity to put before the court a written response in addition to my having to attend the hearing and answer questions? I just wondered what the process is and if anyone has any tips and hints on how to deal with this.

More sleepless nights and complete astonishment of the actions of the neighbours whom we have lived alongside for many years with no trouble apart from them being miserable beggars. This all stems from the fact that we had planning permission granted to which they put up a number of ludicrous objections which the council disregarded and they are now using our extension build and the party wall act to disrupt proceedings and cause us additional expense.

Any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks

[Crazy council]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Hi

Arethey asking for a lot in damages/cost, or minimal.

Ifyou think they are going to issue proceeding regardless, i would ( toprep myself to defend any action ) Send them a letter, markedwithoutprejudicesave as for costs

Inthat say you do not acsept any liability at all, but for the sakethey consider they may have been inconvenienced , offer them £60 or £ 100 for any inconveniencecaused,

Theabove is really to show the judge that you tried to sort it out, itmay also go a long way to defending against any costs claims by theclaiment...

Theexact wording on the deeds can be important, also, make sure you havepictures of how tidy it looks after the work was finished, and howall disturbances were put back.

Ifyour going to have to face this as a claim, make sure its just forany inconvenience/trespass/disruption, and not damage.

Didthe works restrict his access full, or inconveniently at anypoint
didthe works have any detrimental affect on his property or lands ( likeflower beds ect )

And,get these ready for yourself

explainhow the works were partly ( or mainly ) to repair the damp situation( dont lie, but butter it up if required )

wouldbe able to help better if i could see the deeds, understand theacsess for the other property and the dates it was granted.

Canyou detail exactly what they are claiming for and how much they areclaiming

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Thanks Crazy Council
Des8 very kindly pointed out the error in my interpretation of the deeds.
We are now at the stage where due to the AO prevaricating throughout the PWA process and colluding with the PW surveyor to deal matters, where I was forced to erect the scaffolding along the alleyway to address the damp issue at the time of erecting scaffolding at the rear to carry out works. We were told by the PW surveyor scaffolding would be included in the award and when it came through there was no mention but we had already arranged for scaffolding.

The 2 occupants of the house were not inconvenienced. one was away for 3 out of the 4 weeks the scaffolding was installed.
One of the joint owners of the house does not live there - comes once a week to do cleaning!
They are making claims saying they couldn't access their property and had to turn sideways to go down the alley because of the two poles at the start of the alley -it was bridged so they could reach their side door [which is their only means of access as they moved their door from the front to the side some years ago].
They said they couldn't have deliveries! Or carry shopping! Funny that - we've had builders carrying loads of stuff through the alley and they managed it.....

It is a fact that the scaffolding in the alley was for the damp - we have taken photos of the builders repairing it and weatherproofing the wall with that very expensive paint as an added protection. The end part of the scaffolding - the builders did use to put some tiles up on the roof extension as the scaffolding was there - so why not - and Access to Neighbouring Land Act [although we didn't invoke it] does allow for 'incidental work' which this would be classed. of course the AO is saying that was the primary purpose but it was not - and if it were - we wouldn't have needed to install scaffolding along the length of the alley - only the last 2 metres!
They want £450 p.w. scaffolding license x 4 weeks [I didn't agree to a license]
£700 for the license to be drawn up [retrospectively now I guess?]
solicitor's fees they have incurred for approx £1,500

their court injunction is to compel us to a] remove the scaffolding [already gone] and b] damage for trespass [there has been no physical damage, we have taken photos each morning and each evening to prove this] and c] costs [their legal fees]

Thanks for any advice.

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Oh and they are many things - but they are not obese so the notion of having to turn sideways to go down the alley is laughable.

They point out how narrow the alley is - but again when we brought up the damp in November they asked us to address is using tressle scaffolds which could be removed each day - however as the damp is on the second floor r- for H&S reasons it is not a] permitted to use treacle scaffolding and b] the alley is too narrow to erect them - it's scaffolding or nothing, obviously they wanted nothing and we wanted scaffolding to address the damp which has permeated inside - and again we have photographic evidence.

Yours in absolute amazement at the petty nature of the neighbours. Two live there - one is a joint owner with the other owner who lives a few miles away and who has not been affected one jot.

Thanks again....

[Crazy council]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Do you have a plan or photos that shows it.

Have dealt with these before, they can be a nightmare to be honest. You need to prep properly if they do take action, as you may loose, it could all simply turn on an interpritation of the deads, not the argument.

Did trying to deal with them delay you getting the damp sorted asap ( you would need some form of proof )
Was the damp causing quantifiable further damage or getting noticeably worse

Now consider the other side approach.

1. Did you try properly to come to a deal with them prior to erecting the scaffolding
2. Had they siad no to it, before you started it
3. did the work ( other than damp ) increase the value or salability of your property
4. Did you have to apply for planning, and was you required to get a licence from the local authority for the scaffold ( sometimes needed if going over public access ways, even if you own it )

To break it down ;

If you didnt have the right to errect it, then you was trespassing
if it did interfere with there accessway to the front door or property, then you have inconvenienced them.

If they can successfully argue the above 2, then its just about how you have both acted, and how much your going to pay them

Without seeing any of the paperwork, plans or whats gone on. I suppose you best chance of a defence would be

1. Did attempt to sort it with neighbours but was unsuccessful
2. Damp problem was growing causing further losses ( do you have childeren )
3 All reasonable steps taken to not inconvenience much

plus anythink you can add that you think the judge may consider to reduce the claims and costs against you.

[des8]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Basically agree with CC, and see post 17.
I would consider responding to the solicitor pointing out that as the scaffolding has been removed there is no need for a licence, his fees are something between him and his clients, and any trespass (and at this stage don't admit to trespass) was minor, but necessary to enable you maintain the fabric of your building.
Could you post up the letter from the solicitors (suitably redacted) so we can see if it complies with Court pre action protocols?

The only people who can sue for trespass are those in possession, so the non resident owner probably has no claim against you, and one of the others was only possibly inconvenienced for a week.
PWA ?Paul Walton Associates

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Des8
thanks for your response. Have replied to sol's - will post up redacted letter a.s.a.p. just dealing with further development.
PWA - Party Wall Act

thanks

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Update. AOs have now served county court papers on us! We've been sent Small Claims Track Direction Questionnaires and we have ticked we think the case is suitable for the small claims track. The claimants have of course stated they do NOT think it is suitable and have asked for it to be heard in the Fast Track instead. So their initial claim under £10k [which is why it was PROVISIONALLY allocated to the small claims track] they now think they will get more than that if they go to the Fast Track.
There was no damage. The scaffolding was up for less than 4 weeks and was erected to deal with a damp problem in our loft.

I presume it all hinges now on what the Judge thinks when he reviews the paperwork and I guess he could agree and allocate to the Fast Track where I would be liable for their legal costs.
Any thoughts gratefully received.

[des8]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

I suspect the other side are trying to frighten you, so that when it comes to mediation you will agree a fairly substantial compensation figure, and doubt it will go to Fast Track.

The usual measure of damages in trespass cases is the loss suffered as a consequence of the trespass.
So looking at your case what was the actual loss suffered resulting from the trespass? There was no repair and reinstatement required.Where the trespass is minor, these awards may be very small or nominal.
There was a case (but I can't find the record) where a claimant was awarded £1 damages against a defendant who parked without permission on the cIaimant's land.

Don't forget in your defence to say you would have sought access underAccess to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 if you hadn't misread your deeds, and you apologise accordingly.

[des8]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

I suspect the other side are trying to frighten you, so that when it comes to mediation you will agree a fairly substantial compensation figure, and doubt it will go to Fast Track.

The usual measure of damages in trespass cases is the loss suffered as a consequence of the trespass.
So looking at your case what was the actual loss suffered resulting from the trespass? There was no repair and reinstatement required.Where the trespass is minor, these awards may be very small or nominal.
There was a case (but I can't find the record) where a claimant was awarded £1 damages against a defendant who parked without permission on the cIaimant's land.

The other measure used is for the court to assess what they think you would have had to pay to obtain access, if you had negotiated with your neighbour.
Of course this was not acceptable to him, which is why (on misreading your deeds) you went ahead anyway!

Don't forget in your defence to say you would have sought access underAccess to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 if you hadn't misread your deeds, and you apologise accordingly.

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

Thanks Des8 for your quick response.

The reasons for their request for FT is their claim for trespass and dispute regarding the level of damages claimable. I don't understand that as they have already attached a figure for their claim so surely they can't change their mind half way through and decide they want more money? They have cited the amount of legal technical argument but again I can't see what that refers to. The alleged trespass was for just under four weeks and was for the purpose of maintaining the fabric of our building and we would have invoked as you say ATNL had we not misinterpreted it. Also saying they will need to call 6 witnesses! Again not quite sure who they're going to call. They haven't suffered any damage or loss. They will cite inconvenience but for 2 of the 4 weeks one resident was away on holiday! Unbelievable. Can I write separately to the Money Claims online people to state why I think it should remain as small claims track?

Thank you

[pampampam]

Re: Deeds Interpretation: can anyone help? please?

I think - after lodging initially in the small claims track [or that is how it was provisionally allocated for a sum under £10k] they are now going to cite 'buy out' damages - hence their request for a Fast Track - to get more money out of me. I've looked on the net and it appears that buy out damages are usually used with large firms - I can't see any instance where used in the domestic situation.