Can't sell house - Disability Grant

[red23]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

wales01man - we have a solicitor appointed (same one who is appointed to wind up estate) who has been trying to resolve this but cannot find any way around it after speaking to both council and HSBC.

isitrequired - I have a meeting with MSP today and will be raising these issues to see if anything can be done. I also agree £4000 is a horrendous amount for a stairlift which is part of the reason we loath to have to pay for it and one beneficiary refuses to.

[enquirer]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

I also agree £4000 is a horrendous amount for a stairlift which is part of the reason we loath to have to pay for it and one beneficiary refuses to.

If you breach the conditions, the £4000 falls due (immediately, it is presumed).

If there is £4000 cash in the estate, rent the property out, breach the conditions and then use that money to pay the council off. If the estate does not have the cash, then once the conditions are breached, the house will have to be sold in order to settle the debt.

You could yourself loan the £4000 to the estate. You would then be a creditor. The charge is paid off with this, the house sold to you. The £4000 is paid back to you and then the remaining estate is divided.

Either way, the estate owes the money, and as creditors are satisfied first, the beneficiaries will receive less than anticipated. There is no way to avoid the 'loss' of £4000.

[des8]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

As the council have registered a local land charge for a grant which they say is not repayable, this would interfere with the grantee's right to sell. I feel sure this must contravene some human right or other.

I've researched a number of other councils and they all seem to have a repayment clause on a sliding scale if the property is sold within a 5 or 10 year period. Some require repayment if the grantee dies within that period, others don't.

The grant could most easily be repaid when your proposed purchase goes through, and the charge lifted as happens with any outstanding charges on a property when it's sold.

I can't believe there is a council which does not have in place a mechanism to recoup grant money.

Has there been a formal request for the council to remove the charge in accordance with the provisions of The Regulatory Reform (Housing Assistance)(England and Wales) Order 2002 3.(7) ?

Earlier it was suggested contacting your local MP. As this has been on going for sometime and is now costing money (I assume council tax is being charged), causing distress and tension to the executor and beneficiaries because of the intransigence of the council (after all they are the ones holding it up) I would also consider a complaint to the ombudsman.

[red23]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

Enquirer - we believe this would be the best way out of it however the council said it will take 3/4 weeks to work out how much we are due given the interest on top of the £4000 and even then they have said and i quote "never once chased anyone for payment as the council are not in the habit of chasing debts for non repayable grants" The only person they have ever had pay it back was a dentist that bought a house as a business and even then that was only them coming forward and volunteering to pay. This was over 15 years ago.

It should be noted that the person we are speaking to in the Council is trying his utmost to find a way round this and is trying to be as helpful as possible.

des08 - Thanks for having a look in to this, but something i should have mentioned from the start is that i am in Scotland which will obviously alter things. The MP has now referred this case to the council and justice dept and believes this situation is utterly outrageous and like nothing she has ever seen before.

As i'm sure everyone reading this can see it is a very sorry situation the likes of which not many people will have seen. To actively penalize a family who just lost their mother to leukemia is down right unfair. My solicitor is partly to blame for bringing this land register entry to the attention of the lender as he informs me they are bound by law to do "the right thing" given that the council have first security. The solicitors also do not know where to turn and ask me for ideas despite being in the profession for over 40 years.

[des8]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

I should have looked at your profile first and noted the Scottish angle!

If you go down the route of you as the executor renting to yourself don't let the property be your sole or main residence.
If you do you will not be breaching the terms of the grant.
cf: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2006/1/section/83 where section 5 condition B applies
Part 2 97 2(b) "references to the applicant.....are to be read.....after an applicant dies.....as references to the applicants executor"

[des8]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

Overnight thoughts>>>>>
Legislation referred to in post 20 means that the applicant's executor is treated as if they are the applicant.
Legally also the executor is owner of the deceased's estate until distribution is made.

Section 5 Condition B is that the house must not be occupied by the owner or a member of the owner's family (within the meaning of section 83 of the 1987 Act) except as that person's only or main residence.

You as executor are now either the owner or regarded as the applicant.

Assuming this is not your main residence that condition B has been breached

If you have breached the conditions the council can claim back their grant from you, and you pay it from the estate and those beneficiaries who disagree......

As the council can also add interest, this should be limited to the date they were first advised.

[enquirer]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

... "never once chased anyone for payment as the council are not in the habit of chasing debts for non repayable grants" .

A non-repayable grant with repayment conditions and a Land Charge as security for the debt.

This is positively surreal.

[des8]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

Housing (Scotland) act 2006 allows for grants which are repayable if certain conditions are breached en the first ten years, and they are secured by local land charges. I don't think the council employee is up to speed with the legislation which does not mention "Non repayable" grants.

Similar applies in Wales where at least some grants are repayable if the property is sold within 3 years, and they are secured by local land charges

[red23]

Re: Can't sell house - Disability Grant

Just an update to this, it is still ongoing and we have had no option but to agree to pay the money back to the council, which they have now agreed they will do.

We have had to also pay the councils legal team to draft up paperwork to write the debt off.

The mortgage company now want indemnity insurance given the fact the house price has increased since the agreed purchase date and its recognized as being sold now as under value. Of course both beneficiary's need to be included and this and any debts to be assessed before they mortgage can be agreed and of course my uncle has tens of thousands of pounds of debt....

Its a never ending nightmare