Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

[RobRevolution]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

For making into silk purses?

Lol - they are actually useful, on the two occasions I have visited their surgery, I have ended up with personal treatment/direct phone numbers of people with clout whereas going via the departments I just got fobbed off.

I've been reading some interested material on the Housing Act and council powers over empty properties where there are hazards to health (for mental health as well as physical risk) so I think I'll be paying my council friends another visit, ironically they said the surgeries are hardly ever attended, so have become something of an entertainment to them. There has to be something done about the mice, I just had one run out of my bedroom into my bathroom, I believe it's not coincidence that these started appearing about a month after the house was vacated - god know what kind of food etc he left lying all over the place.

Interesting. If I can't get help with the wall getting fixed I am going to make life difficult for the Building Soc and as suggested above maybe the estate agent/owner will be less likely to ignore the law and powers that be. We shall see I shall update on what happens, my friend's a civil servant in London will see if he knows anyone who has knowledge of the legislation etc will be speaking to him this evening.

[des8]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

If it's a repossession, then it means just that - it's theirs, and they can dispose of it as they will. The previous owner still owes them the money of course, and they can pursue him for other costs, but if it's back in their possession, it's their problem.

Find out if this is what happened.

Not quite accurate.
The mortgagor has taken possession of a mortgaged property, due probably to a default on the terms and conditions of the mortgage.
However OWNERSHIP still resides with the mortgagee, who remains responsible for the property.

As an aside I wonder how many householders realise that a charge by deed expressed by way of a legal mortgage actually gives the mortgagor right of possession as soon as the mortgage is executed.
However, although the right to possession arises on the execution of the mortgage, the general intention of the parties is normally that the borrower should be allowed to remain in possession until he commits some act of default, hence the contract - the mortgage terms and conditions - will normally provide for this.

[Laurieloo2]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

I would contact Nationwide by phone and then follow up with writing as lets face it a response will take weeks - if it ever comes at all!

Unfortunately the owner is responsble for the property (including the payment of council tax etc) Until the property has been physically seized by mortgage company, this can take months and they have to give plenty of notice. The mortage company must have already seized the property and it now be under their name and be their responsibilty to upkeep if there is someone clearing out the previous owners belonging otherwise they would not have the authority to give access to that person. It does seem like Nationwide are your best bet, at the very least they may be able to confirm they own it.
I would guess that as its been repossessed the previous owner is probably going / gone bankrupt?? you can search on the insolvency service for his name to see if he has. It may be worth finding out from your local court if there is anything you can do as (im not sure of this at all just a suggestion) maybe you can be included on his bankruptcy as he will owe you money also if you foot the bill for entire wall??? But as someone said the chance of getting money is slim and would be a long wait.
Notify council of vermin definately - they should do something about that.
Unfortunately if Nationwide are the owners, the most they will do is allow you to change wall at YOUR expense. I would suggest waiting if you can. Repossessed houses usually have a pretty quick turn around once they have been possessed by mortgage companies. IF Estate agents invovled already then its probably the mortgage company that has put it up for sale and they usually do so at a reduced price and are quick to drop the price as the want the house off their hands quickly and would rather sell it for most of the outstanding debt rather then receiving none of it! With this in mind hopefully the mortgage company will sell it quickly and this can be a matter you take up with the new owner??

[des8]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

As I posted above (today @ 10.33pm) Nationwide are not the owners.
They are mortgagors in possession.
Possession and ownership are different.
The owner is responsible and liable for maintenance of the property.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

The owner is responsible and liable for maintenance of the property.

Would that still apply if the house were to "go on fire"?

[des8]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Yes. The owner is responsible.
If your house was "to go on fire",and it was mortgaged you still have to repay the mortgage.
It matters not if the fire was accidental or deliberate and that's why most people are encouraged to effect fire insurance.
You don't happen to be a pyrotechnician with an interest in self immolation, do you? :flame:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

You don't happen to be a pyrotechnician with an interest in self immolation, do you? :flame:

No.

I was considering the likely effects of some low-life junkies starting a camp fire in the middle of the sitting room.

[des8]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

In theory :
Mortgagor in possession, owner still liable for repaying mortgage.
House burns down, mortgagee still has to redeem mortgage.
In fact:
Mortgagor in possession, owner still liable to redeem mortgage but mortgagor insures own interest in property.
House burns down, insurance company pays mortgagor.
Under subrogation rights Insurance company can pursue mortgagee, but is unlikely to viewing impecunious position of said mortgagee, as even Insurance Companies can't get blood out of a stone!

This is a similar position to Mortgage Indemnity Insurance that was discussed here recently.

[RobRevolution]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Still confused here - the owner, seeing as the locks were changed in Sept and he was then turfed out and is now living somewere else, and he clearly had a lot of financial problems, is hardly likely to come back and take a look at whether there are mice in the property and do anything about it (let's assume for the moment there are no junkies setting a match to the place, but if they did, who would come to sort it all out, would the BS just call the previous owner and get him to sort it out?)

While he may be financially liable for the COSTS, does the possessor (let's assume Nationwide for now) not have to to do something seeing as they have the keys, etc. - and then if necessary add the costs of any repairs/cats/poison onto whatever debt the owner owes?

Couldn't ge hold of my friend, council surgery is this coming Thursday. Think mice are the priority, they are becoming hazardous to my mental health, not to mention any disease the might carry...

[CleverClogs]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Get a cat.

[des8]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

I should think, as has already been advised, that your local council is the first stop.
They might be able to take action under the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act 1949), or, as it might be causing a statutory nuisance by being prejudicial to health or a nuisance, they might take action under the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
Under the 1949 Act the council has the powers, if the responsible person fails to act, to carry out the necessary work and pass the costs on to the owner.

[RobRevolution]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Get a cat.

Lol, I had a terrier dog stay here, looking after him for a friend last week, he kills mice at home but didn't catch any of mine. My friend (as she lives in the country so surrounded by mice) also gave me some kill traps to add to the human traps (I mean humane, but in some kind of freudian slip I always type human - if only I was allowed to put human traps out the back for the stone thieves!) I'd stuffed with peanut butter and chocolate and that the mice ignored, apparently she can get 10 mice in one night with her traps, my mice just ignore them and run around them, they even run across the room while I am watching TV, they are obviously hardened urban mice.

I've read that in extreme cases the council have to move you out and accommodate you while they gas the place - though the stink of unknown numbers of dead mice in the walls/floorboards is making me stick trying to catch the rascals for now!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Had you considered digging a sharply V-shaped ditch at the foot of the wall so that, when the low-life next tries to rob the coping stones, they'll have to stand in the ditch and twist their ankles?

[RobRevolution]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

Had you considered digging a sharply V-shaped ditch at the foot of the wall so that, when the low-life next tries to rob the coping stones, they'll have to stand in the ditch and twist their ankles?

Now there's an idea! :doggieyes:

[RobRevolution]

Re: Party Wall Problem with Empty Property Next Door

I should think, as has already been advised, that your local council is the first stop.
They might be able to take action under the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act 1949), or, as it might be causing a statutory nuisance by being prejudicial to health or a nuisance, they might take action under the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
Under the 1949 Act the council has the powers, if the responsible person fails to act, to carry out the necessary work and pass the costs on to the owner.

Thanks, I will arm myself with that info!