Article re LIBOR

[CYNthesys]

https://www.property118.com/libor-sc...vestors/61094/

This article caught my eye, but it seems to be aimed at people who currently have mortgages linked to LIBOR

It talks about rescinding the mortgage, but its unclear what the position would be if someones mortgage that was linked to LIBOR has already been paid off

ANY IDEAS ???

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Article re LIBOR

Hi CYN.
This is a brilliant find for us especially I have letters from Swift confirming our loaninterst was linked to LIBOR and Porky teller White confirming under oath Swifts funding was solely governed by the LIBOR interest rate.

Sparkie

[CYNthesys]

Re: Article re LIBOR

I find the underlined bits particularly interesting-
First, a borrower would not have to prove that he actually suffered loss from the manipulations. It is enough that the product is from one of the relevant lenders, and that it was linked to LIBOR at some point in the relevant period (2005-2010). Second, if the contract is rescinded you would still have to restore the sums lent, but only to the extent of the current value of the property that they were used to buy.

Endowment interest only Mortgage for £45,000 taken out with NHL (Paragon) in 1986, mortgage redeemed December 2005, I estimate interest payments exceeding £150,000 were made over the 19 year term. What would this mean for me if the courts found in favour of the mortgagor.

[dogtired]

Re: Article re LIBOR

Only had a quick look but I know that ours IS linked to LIBOR via Kensington.
Any ideas how we would proceed?

[des8]

Re: Article re LIBOR

First to do is check if your particular bank has been fined for rigging the rate.
Your rate may be pegged to LIBOR, but that rate was published and used by those in the money markets who accepted its integrity. The lender could have been misled as much as everyone else who accepted the old City adage "my word is my bond", and thought everyone was still as honest as the day is long! (sound the violins now)

[CYNthesys]

Re: Article re LIBOR

I've retained all the NHL paperwork from when the mortgage was taken out in 1986 until it was redeemed in 2005. It includes references to its interest rate being linked to LIBOR

[dogtired]

Re: Article re LIBOR

So does ours and Barclay's is also mentioned.

[des8]

Re: Article re LIBOR

The London Interbank Offered Rate is set by a number of international banks (about 15) based on an average of the worlds most creditworthy banks inter bank deposit rates and is used for short term loans.
As the rigging was done by these international banks I doubt outfits like Kensington (Investec?) or HML were involved. They only linked their rates to Libor, (in the same way other lenders might link their rates to Bank of England base rate), so will not run the risk of being fined and so I doubt you'll be able to rescind.
You might have a case against each and every bank involved in so far as their illegal actions caused you harm but I wouldn't like to fund that fight

[CYNthesys]

Re: Article re LIBOR

The American banks included in the panel surveyed by the BBA for U.S. dollar fixing are:

• The Bank of America
• JP Morgan Chase
• Citibank, NA

There are 16 non-U.S. banks surveyed for U.S. dollar fixing in London. These banks are:

• Bank of Nova Scotia
• Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd
• Barclays Bank plc
• BNP Paribas
• Credit Agricole CIB
• Credit Suisse
• Deutsche Bank AG
• HSBC
• Lloyds TSB Bank plc
• Rabobank
• Royal Bank of Canada
• Société Générale
• Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation
• The Norinchukin Bank
• The Royal Bank of Scotland Group
• UBS AG

.http://americablog.com/2012/07/list-...llar-rates.htm

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Article re LIBOR

T his is the case number.
Case No: A3/2013/0785, A3/2013/0788 & A3/2013/0862
Neutral Citation Number: [2013] EWCA Civ 1372Case No: A3/2013/0785, A3/2013/0788 & A3/2013/0862 Neutral Citation Number: [2013] EWCA Civ 1372
IN THE COURT OF APPEAL (CIVIL DIVISION)
ON APPEAL FROM HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION
COMMERCIAL COURT
THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE FLAUX &THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE
COOKE
[2012] EWHC 3093 (Comm) & [2013] EWHC 471 (Comm)
Royal Courts of Justice
Strand, London, WC2A 2LL

Date: 08/11/2013
Before:

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE LORD JUSTICE LONGMORE
THE RIGHT HONOURABLE LORD JUSTICE UNDERHILL
and
THE RIGHT HONOURABLE SIR BERNARD RIX
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Between:

Claim No.
2012 Folio
1259
A3/2013/0862

Claim Nos.
2011 Folio
1199 & 2012
Folio 464
A3/2013/0785








GRAISELEY PROPERTIES LIMITED & ORS
-and-
BARCLAYS BANK PLC
-and-
1) DEUTSCHE BANK AG
2) DBS BANK LIMITED
3) BBK B.S.C.
4) SHINHAN BANK
5) LIREF (SINGAPORE) PTE LTD
6) PT. BANK NEGARA INDONESIA (PERSERO)
TBK, TOKYO BRANCH
7) BMI BANK BSC
8) DB INTERNATIONAL (ASIA) LIMITED
9) AXIS SPECIALTY LIMITED
10) DB TRUSTEES (HONG KONG) LIMITED
Respondents

Appellants

Respondents
- and -




1) UNITECH GLOBAL LIMITED
2) UNITECH LIMITED
-and-
DEUTSCHE BANK AG
-and-
UNITECH LIMITED

Appellants


Respondent

Appellant

[smith]

Re: Article re LIBOR

My mortgage was linked to the libor rate taken out 2005 got 17years left

[CYNthesys]

Re: Article re LIBOR

Im pretty certain that NHL (subsequently named Paragon) was a subsidiary of a US Bank, but so far Ive been unable to find any connection

Any ideas on how I can find this out please?

[des8]

Re: Article re LIBOR

Standard and Poors report on HML gives this info:
Skipton Building Society (SBS) established Homeloan Management Ltd. (HML) in 1988 as an outsourcing servicer of U.K. residential mortgages. SBS remains the 100% owner of HML's share capital. As of June 2011, HML employed about 1,410 staff across its operating premises in Skipton, Glasgow, and Derry. The office in Padiham, Lancashire, closed in late 2011, as the company had planned.
HML also very active in ROI

WHY DID I READ HML FOR NHL...... TOO MUCH OUT OF THAT BOTTLE FROM SCOTLAND?... OR WAS IT BECAUSE HML WERE BACK UP SERVICER FOR PARAGON.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Article re LIBOR

Im pretty certain that NHL (subsequently named Paragon) was a subsidiary of a US Bank, but so far Ive been unable to find any connection

Any ideas on how I can find this out please?

Hi Cyn
Paragon Now owned by Alchemy Partners LLP ( Swifts owners) via Kestrel.....that s why Swift always throw up the Paragon case in their claims

[dogtired]

Re: Article re LIBOR

The London Interbank Offered Rate is set by a number of international banks (about 15) based on an average of the worlds most credit worthy banks inter bank deposit rates and is used for short term loans.
As the rigging was done by these international banks I doubt outfits like Kensington (Investec?) or HML were involved. They only linked their rates to Libor, (in the same way other lenders might link their rates to Bank of England base rate), so will not run the risk of being fined and so I doubt you'll be able to rescind.
You might have a case against each and every bank involved in so far as their illegal actions caused you harm but I wouldn't like to fund that fight

No mention of Investec but was taken out via a subsidiary, at the time, of Kensington called TML (they were part of the same group) Have LIBOR mentioned on two sets of documents along with Barclay's name.
Their was also mention of "mortgage protection" but this disappeared when we got the Kensington paper work but amounts were the same (if that makes sense) It would be expensive to fight them, I agree, but wish I could.