Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

[Streetwise]

Got my title deeds for a leasehold flat.


Title Number : XXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Address of Property :XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


Price Stated : £160,500.00


Registered Owner ( s ) : John Smith And Anne Stephen of 23 Mountcasle Terrace London Sw18 5pw.


Lender ( s ) : None

Charges register : Loyds/TSB

Question,the monies showing on the register is considerably less than they are asking for,no payment ever missed all payments made on time.

Charge registered 2006 ,they claim the loan was taken out in 2007.

Nothing on the register mentions anything about 2007.

Any Clues

Thanks in advance for any help,and Merry Christmas too Everybody.

[enquirer]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

Ask them for a full accounting.

[CYNthesys]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

If its a charging order against your property, I imagine the difference between the 2 figures is accruing interest

[Streetwise]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

If its a charging order against your property, I imagine the difference between the 2 figures is accruing interest

Hi and thanks for the replies,this is linked to my main thread started back in 2011 this is the alleged loan,there is no charging order its an intrest only loan and has been paid on time every time for 7 years they say they lent £272.000.00,but this shows no where in the title deeds just the figure in post 1,just want to no if the title deeds should show the lender and how much they lent,is the figure mentioned in the title deeds all they can claim if they repposesed,regards Streetwise.

[PlanB]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

this is the alleged loan,there is no charging order its an intrest only loan and has been paid on time every time for 7 years they say they lent £272.000.00,but this shows no where in the title deeds just the figure in post 1,just want to no if the title deeds should show the lender and how much they lent,is the figure mentioned in the title deeds all they can claim if they repposesed.

The entry on the Land Registry will show the price paid when the property was purchased and the date it was purchased. That could be the £160,500 in 2006 (or before because you've not referred to the purchase date?).

Then there will be another entry further down the page (page 2) under "Title Absolute" which will show the name of the current owner and the date they became the owner which will be the same date as the purchase date.

If the property was bought with a mortgage or loan that will show as a registered charge with the name of the lender who registered it and the date it was registered but it will not show the amount lent because that is strictly private information which is not in the public domain.

Every time a mortgage/loan gets paid off the charge is removed from the Land Registry file available to the public (it's stored on a database behind the scenes for ever).

Every time a new loan is taken out the name and date of the new charge registered is recorded on the public file. The amount is not ever shown since that is private between lender and borrower.

What may have happened here is the property was bought for £160,500 and then re-mortgaged at a later date for £272k if the property had been renovated or simply increased in value along with inflation and market trends etc.

What can also happen is a charge is taken over the property by a bank but then the property decreases in value so the charge remains in place with the bank being owed in excess of the property's value.

There is also something known as a 'floating charge' where a bank takes a charge over the property for an unspecified amount (i.e. an open-ended loan such as a business overdraft which can fluctuate) because that's all the security the borrower had to offer at the time. This may include more than one product with the bank such as multiple overdrafts loans etc. The wording on the charge certificate will be something like "£X and all further sums due to XXX Bank".

[PlanB]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

Charge registered 2006 ,they claim the loan was taken out in 2007.

Nothing on the register mentions anything about 2007.

Is there a possibility that a secured loan was taken out in 2006 so the charge was registered by the bank; then a further advance or even a new loan with different terms (but with the same bank) was taken out in 2007? If this was the case then since there was already a charge on the property from 2006 the bank may not have needed to register a new charge.

This could explain why the bank is referring to a loan taken out in 2007.

[Streetwise]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

Is there a possibility that a secured loan was taken out in 2006 so the charge was registered by the bank; then a further advance or even a new loan with different terms (but with the same bank) was taken out in 2007? If this was the case then since there was already a charge on the property from 2006 the bank may not have needed to register a new charge.

This could explain why the bank is referring to a loan taken out in 2007.

Thank you very much for your reply from what you have said this would appear to be the case but could you tell me why it states (lender none ),I have been following a thread elsewhere at you have been replying to regarding L.P.A. receivers the poster has been to 25 solicitors but nobody would take up the work.

I have been told that the banks pay a retainer to a lot of the solicitors that deal in property Law.

As said before there is no default on this loan and no missed payments,and the bank do not have any paper work for this loan taken out alledgedly in 2007.

Because the bank have now instructed L.P.A. receivers and made contact with me and the tennants of the flats more paperwork is being passed to the police who are dealing with this case, my M.P. is also involved and is in touch also with the police about this case.As said before the police had said that nothing can be done until a loss has been made,when that happens I hope the police will finally uphold the Law.

Thanks again for your input.

[PlanB]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

I remember your thread on another forum because I was involved in it when it went off on a tangent about unrelated tax affairs . I believe this loan relates to money advanced which was secured against two flats not just one but you've only referred to one leasehold title register. And wasn't the same loan also secured against your family home? Have you checked Land Registry for the details of all three properties?

I am not a lawyer but if I were in your shoes I would get legal advice on whether you can also place a charge/restriction on the flat(s) since you may have a financial interest in the properties as a result of you paying the mortgage. In fact if I remember correctly the equity in the property was left to your young sons in your late partner's Will so they too may have a financial interest albeit their age may be relevant for legal charge purposes and would need a guardian (you) to act for them. Check this out asap.

I did this as a wife when divorcing even though I hadn't paid a penny towards the mortgage and the property didn't have my name on the title deeds. The lawyer said since I had a financial interest (divorce issues) I could register a charge to prevent the property being sold without my consent. If you are able to do this (and I genuinely don't know the answer) then at least the LPA receiver can't sell the flat(s).

[PlanB]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

the bank have now instructed L.P.A. receivers and made contact with me and the tennants of the flats.

Has the LPA receiver served the Tenants with a Notice to Quit or are the Tenants now paying their rent direct to the LPA receiver who will pass it on to the bank after helping themselves to their exorbitant management fees?

[Streetwise]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

Has the LPA receiver served the Tenants with a Notice to Quit or are the Tenants now paying their rent direct to the LPA receiver who will pass it on to the bank after helping themselves to their exorbitant management fees?

Hello and good morning,the tennants do not wish to speak to the L.P.A. receivers.I have asked the L.P.A receivers to validate there appointment I still have not had there reply.
As Executor of the Estate it is my duty to protect the Estate for its Beneficiares,they have been put on notice that any losses the estate suffers through there action,they will be held personaly responsible for.

They have not as yet served notice on the tennants to quit and if they do it will be revocked,the tennants want nothing to do with the receivers and are still paying there rent as before and are passing all letters they recieve from them onto me.

Are you able to answer the question about the title deeds ( Lender : None ) or as usual am I missing the obvious.

Regards Streetwise ( Or Maybe not so Streetwise )

[PlanB]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

I think you may be entitled to see all the documents relating to that bank charge registered on the property by Land Registry under the Land Registration Rules 2003. If you can get hold of the original application form and mortgage deed for the bank's charge etc that may help with your research

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/publi...public-guide-1

[Streetwise]

Re: Title deeds a bit of guidance please .

I remember your thread on another forum because I was involved in it when it went off on a tangent about unrelated tax affairs . I believe this loan relates to money advanced which was secured against two flats not just one but you've only referred to one leasehold title register. And wasn't the same loan also secured against your family home? Have you checked Land Registry for the details of all three properties?

I am not a lawyer but if I were in your shoes I would get legal advice on whether you can also place a charge/restriction on the flat(s) since you may have a financial interest in the properties as a result of you paying the mortgage. In fact if I remember correctly the equity in the property was left to your young sons in your late partner's Will so they too may have a financial interest albeit their age may be relevant for legal charge purposes and would need a guardian (you) to act for them. Check this out asap.

I did this as a wife when divorcing even though I hadn't paid a penny towards the mortgage and the property didn't have my name on the title deeds. The lawyer said since I had a financial interest (divorce issues) I could register a charge to prevent the property being sold without my consent. If you are able to do this (and I genuinely don't know the answer) then at least the LPA receiver can't sell the flat(s).

Brilliant plan B,will be in touch with my solicitor in the morning,my sons and I are the benificiares of my late partners will and we had nothing to do with the loans.And i have been paying the loans and mortgage by D/D since she passed.

The price stated to have been paid on 10 April 2006 for the land in this title and in tile xxxxxxxxx was £160.500.

Regards,Streetwise and many thanks again.