Section 21 and Rent arrears question

[logic1]

Hi there,

I have an AST question and any help would be much appreciated.

The AST states that 'The tenancy will then continue, still subject to the terms and conditions set out in this Agreement, from month to month from the end of this fixed period unless or until the Tenant gives notice that he wishes to end the Agreement as set out in clause 4 overleaf, or the Landlord serves on the Tenant a notice under Section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, or a new form of Agreement is entered into, or this Agreement is ended by consent or a Court Order.'

The two parts in bold are what I am interested in. Does this mean that if a Landlord serves on the Tenant a Section 21 then the agreement will no longer continue subject to any terms and conditions held within it? Bascially serving a Section 21 terminates the agreement and neither party are bound by it?

Many thanks

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

The Landlord can serve a section 21 Notice to take possession of the property at any time during the tenancy, but it cannot take effect until the last day of the original fixed term period. It's a 'no fault' Notice which means the Landlord doesn't need to have any reason for taking back his property. Some agents even serve these on the first day of the tenancy to avoid any misunderstanding if the Landlord doesn't intend to let the original fixed term become a rolling contract.

If no section 21 Notice is issued then the contract becomes a Statutory Periodic Tenancy Agreement which rolls over month by month until either Landlord or Tenant do something to change that. Normally the Tenant has to give 1 month's notice and the Landlord has to give 2 months' notice after the end of the fixed term.

If there are rent arrears then the Landlord can serve a Section 8 Notice to take possession and this can be at any time during a fixed term once the rent clause has been breached.

In both cases if the Tenant refuses to leave voluntarily by the date specified in the section 21 or section 8 notice(s) then the Landlord has to seek possession through the county court, and has no legal right to enter the property until an order has been granted by the DJ and a follow-up Eviction Warrant issued by the court. This process takes about three months to conclude.

* The law may differ in Scotland

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

Thank you for your reply.

I understand the above however my AST states what I have written in my original post and I need to know if the paragraph I have included means that if a Section 21 is served then the tenancy no longer continues subject to the terms and conditions included in it.

Thank you

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

my AST states what I have written in my original post and I need to know if the paragraph I have included means that if a Section 21 is served then the tenancy no longer continues subject to the terms and conditions included in it.

That's right. Once a Section 21 Notice is served it's 'the beginning of the end'. It is putting you on notice that the Landlord intends to take back the property on a specific date. So on the date named in the Notice the tenancy agreement ends but the Landlord still has to seek possession through the courts who will automatically grant possession unless the Notice was served incorrectly. Do you have a specific problem with your Landlord which we can help with

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

Thank you again

So a Section 21 terminates the existing AST agreement and neither the LL or T are legally bound by it?

I have a court hearing on Monday regarding rent arrears and my T is arguing that as I served a Section 21, rent was not due after it was served.

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

I understand the above however my AST states what I have written in my original post and I need to know if the paragraph I have included means that if a Section 21 is served then the tenancy no longer continues subject to the terms and conditions included in it.

I'm stuggling to understand your question. If you mean will you still have to pay rent after the section 21 Notice is served (i.e. received by you) then the answer is *Yes*. Rent will remain due until a possession order is obtained by the court. But if you leave at the end of your fixed term you will not owe any rent after the end date of the original tenancy agreement. Does that help?

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

My AST does not say that, is there a legal term that specifically relates to what you have just said?

I have also been made aware that there were missing documents from the PI that I served on my tenant. I also dated the document incorrectly, as though it were served at the start of the tenancy. PI was unfortunately served in April 2012 but tenancy started in March 2010. My T has informed me that they will be making a claim against me for compensation so it is a tricky situation.

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

So a Section 21 terminates the existing AST agreement and neither the LL or T are legally bound by it?

I have a court hearing on Monday regarding rent arrears and my T is arguing that as I served a Section 21, rent was not due after it was served.

Our posts have crossed. I see you are the Landlord and not the Tenant. My mistake. As far as I am aware (and I am a Landlord) as long as the Tenant has possession of the property (i.e. the keys) then the Tenant is liable for all rent due. Is your court application for possession based on the 'no fault' section 21 Notice and are you asking the court for a money judgment for the arrears at the same time?

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

I served a Section 21 in April 2011 (T was 2 months in arrears) but T moved out in March 2012. Was a lengthy process, I received £550 pcm from the council in HB but rent was £650 so £100 missing every month. I did a MCO for rent arrears after Section 21 notice expired and T did not file a defence so I was awarded a judgement.

After T moved out I made a Stat Dec to DPS to start the single claims process for rent arrears and damages to my property but was informed that as a judgement was in place I would have to have the order amended for the DPS to pay it to me.

T is arguing that I did not comply with DPS t&cs or the housing act because of my PI being served incorrectly and I believe they will be making a claim against me.

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

I have also been made aware that there were missing documents from the PI that I served on my tenant. I also dated the document incorrectly, as though it were served at the start of the tenancy. PI was unfortunately served in April 2012 but tenancy started in March 2010. My T has informed me that they will be making a claim against me for compensation so it is a tricky situation.

What is a P1 ?

If any of the legal documents are dated wrongly or completed incorrectly then your claim for possession is likely to fail in court At worst the DJ could award costs to your Tenant if they have legal representation or claiming as a LIP @ £18 per hour

Here's some information on how the section 21 Notice process works. It's written for Tenants but it will help you to see what legal hoops you will have to jump through to get your Tenants out and recover any rent owed:

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ld_tenancies#2

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

I meant Prescribed Information, sorry.

I was already awarded possession, should have explained that. But I have realised that the Prescribed Information was not served before I served the Section 21. T has realised this and as I still have not served all the Prescribed Information correctly I am worried about T making a counter claim.

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

If anyone can help, this is what I sent to the T - http://www.depositprotection.com/doc...n-template.pdf 2 copies - 1 for T and one for me. T emailed confirmation of receipt.

I dated it from March 2010 but it was sent April 2012. Apart from the dating error was this correctly served Prescribed Information?

[PlanB]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

I meant Prescribed Information, sorry.

I was already awarded possession, should have explained that. But I have realised that the Prescribed Information was not served before I served the Section 21. T has realised this and as I still have not served all the Prescribed Information correctly I am worried about T making a counter claim.

You've got possession. You've got a CCJ for your rent arrears but I'm guessing the Tenants haven't paid you and are now arguing that you should not have been granted possession and/or a money judgment in the first place because you didn't comply with the TDS rules on Prescribed Information. In which case the Tenants should have filed a Defence and told that to the DJ at the time. If they didn't do that then I can't see how they can raise the issue over a year later.

What happened to your deposit? Was it enough to cover the arrears? Why didn't your Tenants raise a formal dispute with the TDS at the time? I belong to a different scheme and the deposit is only insured for 90 days after a Tenant leaves the property so why is the TDS involved in this a year later?

Finally, why don't you seek to enforce your money judgment through the courts. But you can't get money out of a stone so if your tenants haven't got any money I see little point in throwing any more money at this.

[logic1]

Re: Section 21 and Rent arrears question

T did actually raise this issue at the possession hearing but did also agree to move out anyway. From what I have read my S21 was invalid as the Prescribed Information was not given to T before I served S21 I believe this is why it was not dealt with. I served the Prescribed Information in April to T's forwarding address after T moved out but I realise I left certain documents out. T states that they have not raised the ccj issue as I have not enforced it.

Deposit is still with the DPS and is £750 - Arrears will be around £1600 after deposit is paid to me. As far as I am aware T produced evidence to DPS when I initiated the single claims process, it was due to be dealt with by the ADR service but as I have the ccj I was told I must first have the judgment amended so that the DPS can pay me the deposit.