Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

[shamen]

Hi all,
Interesting one here and one I hope you can help with. We have a neighbor in our street who leaves out old 'red diesel' jerry cans tied up to wood in the public highway to 'save' his parking space. We have caught our young kids playing on these and are concerned about the health and safety issue.

We attempted to resolve the matter with the gentleman directly but he would not have any of it. He stated "parking is busy and we need to keep our space here"

We have complained to the council, and then to the police as the council could not help us. The police repeatedly talked to the gentleman concerned and he ignored them, that is until recently when they issued him a fixed penalty notice. We have also moved the items off the road in the past, but this results in abusive language.

In retalliation, the gentleman has complained to the council about 'noisy' dogs barking all the time from our back garden. We have two dogs, who do sometimes bark (maybe 2-3 times an hour) when people walk past our home. The dogs are only out at certain hours during the day and never at night as they are in with us. However, the complaint to the council has specified 'all day and night' barking. We also have neighbors to one side of our property who have a very noisy dog who is out most of the day and night that does bark a lot.

The issue is, they gentleman who made the complaint is on the front side of our house, across the street and up by a few houses. I have stood by his house and honestly can hardly hear our dogs when they bark as there is several homes in the way for a start. Our dogs do not bark excessivle, its certainly not constant or ongoing. Only when people walk by the back of the lane which is maybe 2 or 3 times an hour (and they shut up pretty quickly).

The gentleman has also said any fixed penalty notice will be ignored as he is friends with the chief of police who ahs (his words) "promised to rip up any ticket i get for putting out the things to save my parking space." He has also complained (anonymously) to social services that we allow our children to play outside the of the house - his wife visisted and threatend this so we know it was them. thing is, we live in a small terrace with no through street and light traffic. The kids are 8 and 10 and we leave the front door open when they are out so no problem there.

Basicly, he is trying to make things very difficult because we have tried to get him to stop putting dangerous items out int he road to 'save' his parking space.

The council have visited us today and have said a letter is coming in the post to us. One of the reasons given is that the gentleman concerned had asked one of our children (who is autistic) "does your dog bark". Well if you ask an autistic child if a dog barks, of course they will say yes - so he has stated to the council that its our dogs. Im not sure at this stage if the council have done any assesment, but they have said if we do not comply with the letter, we have to pay a fine of up to £1000 - so im guessing this is a formal notice we will be receiving.

So my questions here are

1) how can we deal with this situation? Informal resolution seems way off the cards
2) What procedures must the council have followed and how can I ensure they followed them? (for example, is this level of barking a "serious" nuisance)
3) If we are reported again, and its actually the nieghbors dog, how on earth do we prove this (we have started keeping a log of when the dogs are in vs out for now - but we know hes going to do it again just to be awkward)?
4) What happens if the 'fixed pentaly' the gentleman gets is mysterisouly erased - and is there any method we can check this (we have a crime ref number
5) any other tips or suggestions you feel are pertinent

Thanks ever so much!

[charitynjw]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Hi shaman,

Some info re the local council's input

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndC...er/DG_10029682

[shamen]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Thanks for the link
I read it over and also the Defra leaflet but cant really find much info about what the process is supposed to be internally to the couincil. Dogs bark at the end of the day, but what actually triggers it being a nuisance? Is it just the complaint itself? I mean its normal to expect dogs to bark now and then. If it was all day every day then i would be the first person to take action as after all its in our own back garden. thats just not the case.

The complaint is, in my eyes, malicious but i dont understand how the council can go from complaint to an order in the space of an hour. The council have confirmed that no complaint exists on their system for our street or address, so the officer of the council must have come straight round. Surely they have to do assesments and such first?

[shamen]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

The plot thickens

Spoken to some supervisors at the council - there is no complaint logged about the dogs with environmental health and they havent been out to see us. The supervisor confirmed this.

I spoke to a few departments and the only complaint they could find about us was that we sometimes keep the wheelie bin out front and someone form wate management called round today to ask about that.

Cant really speculate as to why we were threatened about the dogs.

Council have confirmed no action is happening re the dogs, though we will get a letter about keeping the wheelie bin out front. Were happy to keep it in the back, but the lane behind the house is all overgrown and has been the victim of much fly tipping so we cannot get in that way. The council seem dis-interested in clearing they lane as they say its not their responsiblilty, so they have suggested making an allowance for us to use black bags instead of a wheelie bin.

Not sure how a wheelie bin problem morphed into us being threatened about noisy dogs - and not sure how a council waste management person believes he can make such threats or say we face a fine if we dont listen to him. Weird.

[charitynjw]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

From what I read, they must make an assessment based on the 'average' person's sensitivity, & the number of people affected.

If they send an abatement order, ask them on what basis/proof have they made the assessment.

You have 21 days to appeal, I believe.

Re the diesel cans, this could be construed as obstructing the highwayay in the same way as 'skips' without the appropriate permission - dealt with by the local authority highways dept. (not the Highways Agency)

[shamen]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Thanks charity if it ever comes to that will certainly ask for those details.. judging from my talk today with the environmental health supervisor, they have no records of anything and we will not be receiving an order. Seems like it was just an over glorified 'binman' (waste management officer) overstepping their boundries. I would be very surprised if the waste management officer has any say in dogs barking at all. Its also interesting he threatened us with a letter and fine if we dont comply - seems very unprofessional. I would put a pound on him being a friend of the 'gentleman' up the street

[charitynjw]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Re the diesel cans, this could be construed as obstructing the highwayay in the same way as 'skips' without the appropriate permission - dealt with by the local authority highways dept. (not the Highways Agency)

(In case you didn't see the edit, lol)

[shamen]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Interestingly the local highways dept chatted to the gentleman a few times, then gave up as he ignored them. They then told us that thay have no jurisdiction. They recommened we escalate the matter to the police. Bunch of muppets. We are getting hte impression the 'gentleman' has a lot of connections in the council and other local services, such as police. though that doe snot make him above the law it certanly is making trying to do the right thing more difficult for us.

thanks for the advice

[charitynjw]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

From defra

http://archive.defra.gov.uk/rural/do...w/guide-la.pdf

[labman]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

As far as dogs go there appears to be nothing to worry about if the council have stated they have received no complaints.

As far as parking goes, the police have the right to attend deal with the issue. Sadly, nowadays it seems to be a fact with the police that those who shout loudest get most done. They act if not only to get you off their backs.

Personally I would make myself a large thorn in their side complaining every day about this until something is done. If after a while your requests have still not been actioned, a letter to the Chief Constable would probably be in order. The information provided by Charity will give plenty of ammunition.

[WendyB]

Re: Tit for tat neighbor - noise from dogs

Personally I would wait until you get the letter from the council and see what it actually says, and then deal with it accordingly. At the moment you are only guessing what might be in it, you don't know whether it's an abatement order for noise, or a moan about the wheelie bin. As to the dogs barking, try keeping them in for a few days, then you'll have proof that it's not your dogs he can hear. I've got 3 dogs myself and am very conscious of how annoying dogbarking can be, especially as my dogs hardly ever make much noise when they're in the garden(odd because they bark their heads off in the house at the most stupid things lol) yet next door's dogs yap constantly when outside, which really pees me off sometimes.