cat killed by escaped dog

[atticus]

That is high quality avoidance of the question. Playing devil's advocate, I have simply observed that you have complained about a loose dog while your moggy was roaming the streets.

And cats are a big killer of garden birds.

[jimzzr]

Well, I spoke to the owner of the dog with my partner. She is in total denial that her dog has the capability to act aggressively. I have the whole conversation recorded, and no she was not aware. Obviously I can’t let you hear it, but my understanding is that I can produce a transcript and will supply a link to it in due course.

In the meantime, would the exemption allowing me to play the recording to say a police officer extend to a council official investigating a dangerous dog complaint?

Thanks

Jim

[atticus]

As Humphrey Bogart said, Play it.

And from what is it that you think you may need an exemption?

[jimzzr]

As Humphrey Bogart said, Play it.

And from what is it that you think you may need an exemption?

Sorry.
I had thought there was a specific law prohibiting sharing covert recordings with third parties without consent (other than with police or for legal action/solicitors) but it looks like I was mistaken. Having had another look (https://www.lewissilkin.com/en/insig...stify-the-risk), it seems like it depends human rights and GDPR law.

The recording does include the dog owner’s first name and possibly that of her mother, I suspect this is too little info for GDPR to be an issue. (her mother is actually my neighbour, often used to look after the cat and also offered to pay the vets bill, however, she can’t really afford it and I’m not prepared to put financial hardship on her for something that was not her fault).

I’m not sure what creates an “expectation of confidence”, the issue of confidence was not discussed, so I would guess I’m OK?
On the basis of the above would I be safe putting a link to the recording, as is, on the forum?

[echat11]

Sorry.
I had thought there was a specific law prohibiting sharing covert recordings with third parties without consent (other than with police or for legal action/solicitors) but it looks like I was mistaken. Having had another look (https://www.lewissilkin.com/en/insig...stify-the-risk), it seems like it depends human rights and GDPR law.

The recording does include the dog owner’s first name and possibly that of her mother, I suspect this is too little info for GDPR to be an issue. (her mother is actually my neighbour, often used to look after the cat and also offered to pay the vets bill, however, she can’t really afford it and I’m not prepared to put financial hardship on her for something that was not her fault).

I’m not sure what creates an “expectation of confidence”, the issue of confidence was not discussed, so I would guess I’m OK?
On the basis of the above would I be safe putting a link to the recording, as is, on the forum?

I don't think you should do that, simply because voices can be recognized. Voices are pretty 'unique', that's why even banks use 'voice recognition' systems. Plus why get yourself in a 'heap' of trouble when you are trying to resolve something.

[islandgirl]

Have a look at the sentencing guidelines. I once sat on a case where a dog had got out and attacked - I can't remember what it had attacked as it was a long time ago. The verdict was not guilty as a neighbour had been in to get a ball and left the gate ajar....

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...on-is-injured/

I personally do not think the Police will be interested in a dog killing a cat (really sorry to say that) but a civil claim may succeed if you can PROVE that their dog was the cause of death. I am sorry you have lost your pet,

[jimzzr]

I don't think you should do that, simply because voices can be recognized. Voices are pretty 'unique', that's why even banks use 'voice recognition' systems. Plus why get yourself in a 'heap' of trouble when you are trying to resolve something.

Thanks

Just to confirm, do you think 1) a link to a transcript with names removed on the forum and 2) a copy of the recording to the dog warden would be OK?

[atticus]

There have been numerous cases where covert recordings have been accepted in evidence. What do you think this conversation will prove?

[echat11]

They have in some employment matters etc

But conversely when trying to make a case, it can be counter productive, again the Courts have to agree it's admittance as evidence and no doubt the other party will have something to say.

[jimzzr]

There have been numerous cases where covert recordings have been accepted in evidence. What do you think this conversation will prove?

Potentially a) She admits it was her dog b) doesn't actually know why gate was open as offered several explanations c) didn't refute that dogs had escaped before. But then I'm not a lawyer which is why I need more knowledgeable people to comment on it, but don't want to get into a heap of trouble in the process.

[PallasAthena]

Reading the thread for the first time I'm not clear jimzzr what evidence you have to present in court to prove (on the balance of probablilities) that the dog that killed your cat is the dog owned by your neighbour. Staffordshire Bull Terriers are a common breed, in the top 10 breeds in Britain I'd think.

Did you take photos of the attacker dog? Are there witnesses who saw the dog after the attack return to your neighbour's garden? Did the vet take DNA samples from the wounds on your cat that potentially could identify the dog?

The neighbour denies that her dog "has the capability to act aggressively". ALL dogs have the capability to act aggressively but that doesn't mean that they all do behave that way. More relevantly do you have evidence of her dog having previously attacked cats (or other dogs or people....)?

I can't see that the neighbour's admissions on your recording take you very far in proving that their dog killed your cat.

[jimzzr]

Reading the thread for the first time I'm not clear jimzzr what evidence you have to present in court to prove (on the balance of probablilities) that the dog that killed your cat is the dog owned by your neighbour. Staffordshire Bull Terriers are a common breed, in the top 10 breeds in Britain I'd think.

Did you take photos of the attacker dog? Are there witnesses who saw the dog after the attack return to your neighbour's garden? Did the vet take DNA samples from the wounds on your cat that potentially could identify the dog?

The neighbour denies that her dog "has the capability to act aggressively". ALL dogs have the capability to act aggressively but that doesn't mean that they all do behave that way. More relevantly do you have evidence of her dog having previously attacked cats (or other dogs or people....)?

I can't see that the neighbour's admissions on your recording take you very far in proving that their dog killed your cat.

Hi,it's not the neighbours admission it was the owner herself I was speaking to (the neighbours daughter), repeatedly asked for photos showing puncture wounds on the cat, doesn't deny her dog was there and had to take it to the vets next day with a scratched nose.It maybe a common dog but it's a small village.. I do have a photo as I took just before I buried him. There is also an independent witness who was the when the attack was happening and stayed until the owner collected the dog.

Incidentally, I was looking at the format for witness statement as per the link Echat11 posted. One thing that I'm not sure about is that the format requires title of court proceedings and number - does this mean I can get a statement until I've started proceedings or can I get the statement and add the claim number etc after.

I'm pretty certain the dogs not attacked anything before it's not going to be classed as dangerous, this was only ever going to be a civil claim.

[des8]

If you are intent on initiating a court claim you would do well to read up on procedure:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...+web+FINAL.pdf
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

[atticus]

You can add the claim no etc afterwards.

Read the Judiciary's handbook for litigants in person. Link in my signature.

[jimzzr]

Hi,
I’ve transcribed the conversation between me, my partner and dog owner which you can find here if you wish to comment

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PmQ...usp=drive_link

For info
Lines Relevance
7, 29 Her dog
21, 77, 79 Gate/negligence
83 Dogs escaping previously – no rebuttal

Regarding the gate it appears to have (from the outside at least) a traditional thumb operated latch, that (a quick google suggests) are prone to coming open on windy days.

The owner repeatedly asked for proof the cat died from the attack. Are the case notes, link below, likely to be sufficient?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Z-Y...ew?usp=sharing

I guess there’s a chance if presented with this plus the photo the owner might accept some responsibility but I’m not hopeful.

If I was to submit both recording and transcript as evidence and the dog owner successfully objected to the recording could they then successfully deny what’s said in the transcript?

Thanks