I might be using my neighbours water supply!

[crazyswede]

Excuse long post, its probably easier if I try and list the issues.

I purchased my listed property two years ago without a mortgage. I had a full survey, a drainage survey and of course the usual searches carried out by my conveyancing solicitor. All appeared fine.

My son is now considering obtaining a mortgage in principle to purchase the adjoining property which is a commercial business at ground level and a flat above. There is no shared access (no doors or stairs between the two)

We have unofficially looked round the property as we were given advance notice by the owner of it going on the market, and during that viewing, I noticed the water pipe from the downstairs business goes up through the ceiling (potentially serving the flat above, since I know it used to be one business before the upstairs being made into a flat), but more alarming was the pipe then continued above the floor level, and through the wall to into my property next door. On my side, I have the water pipe coming in, and my stopcock. My side of it was enclosed in a cupboard with very restricted access, I had not seen it before we ripped out the cupboard.

It would seem therefore that my water is coming from the downstairs commercial business.

I am concerned that any buyer (assuming its not my son) wont want someone elses water pipe running along their floor in a rather ugly fashion, nor will they want to be supplying my water!

With regard to how it got to be like this, we think we can guess what has happened:-

The current owner of the downstairs business and the flat, once also owned my property and they were originally joined together. When they were separated , it would seem that my current property would have been left without an independent water supply, so the owner simply “borrowed” a supply from his other property. Clearly not the correct way to go about it, but we think thats what happened.

Online searches by my son have so far uncovered the following, Some of which may not be directly relevant to the water supply issue:-

The neighbouring property was converted into two addresses in the early 1990s, there are two deeds (one for the lower part of the building and one for the upper) but they both have the same deed number.
We think this is why the owner wants to sell both the downstairs business and the flat in one sale. We have read online that is possible to split the deed upon sale, but that would require the owner to put this issue right. He’s very keen to sell to us, and I think that’s because we already have next door and therefore having the water come from the business to my house, would not be an issue if my son and I owned all of it between us.

There is online evidence of plans for the conversion, it shows plumbing, but only very generally. They do not specifically say where or how the water is drawn from the mains. In any case, the plans are sketchy (in both senses of the word), and have not even been followed 100% !!!

My question, rather obviously, is where do I go from here? I have contacted the local water board recently (before I knew about this issue) as I needed to know where my outside stopcock is, and they replied that they no longer provide the services of locating such things.

The owner of next door claims to not remember how my water supply was put in when these old buildings were converted for human habitation by him - yet I am convinced he knows full well. He has stated that he will only sell next door in a single sale, and has refused to separate the two addresses by means of getting a new deed (ie so that there would be two deeds). We think this is because of the shared utility issue.

My full survey (which was a specialist one by a company who deal with listed buildings) - it has a get out clause so I have no redress there.
I am going to collect my deeds and associated paperwork from my solicitor to study them, but I suspect the searches came back ok because - just to add to the confusion - I DO have another water supply of my own in a different part of my home. I reckon this is the only supply which would have been subject to the searches - hence everything would have looked ok.

Assuming my son doesnt buy the property, I need to ensure that I dont lose my water supply - can I halt the sale if there is a dispute over this? I have no idea what to do next. Your thoughts are appreciated…

[atticus]

Had you considered getting your water supply checked by a professional and if need be arranging a new supply?

[theberenger]

I must be missing something obvious here, but I'll ask to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else: how many water meters are there? If the supply is shared then you would expect to find a single meter somewhere. If it's not shared, you would expect to have your own meter. Do you?

[atticus]

Not all houses have a water meter.

[crazyswede]

I must be missing something obvious here, but I'll ask to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else: how many water meters are there? If the supply is shared then you would expect to find a single meter somewhere. If it's not shared, you would expect to have your own meter. Do you?

There is no water meter (least ways I am not paying for metered water - I dont know if there is a meter for the residential part of the next door property, or for the downstairs business from where I think the water might originate). My water bill states that the water is unmetered. However, that might be referring to water I believe might be entering the building direct from the mains - to recap, I * suspect* I have two water supplies! The obvious answer is to re route the water from one supply (if my supposition that I have two supplies is correct), and connect it so bypasses the second supply from the neighbouring property - however, I’m in a listed building and it’s not small….. it would entail an awful lot of expense not to mention cosmetic damage. Ideally, if I could keep things as they are, I would be happy! I am just concerned that once the next door property is sold, the next owner might turn off the water supply in someway, which would leave me with out a supply to my bathroom.

edit to include extra info….
You mentioned there would be a meter if the supply was/is shared - but I suspect it is shared in an unofficial capacity. The owner of the next door property is the same person who originally owned my property- and I think he just “borrowed” the supply when he fitted an upstairs bathroom because that would have been a quicker/cheaper option. Basically, I think he did something unethical, if not illegal. I have not asked him outright at this point - I am trying to understand it fully before I broach the subject.

[crazyswede]

Had you considered getting your water supply checked by a professional and if need be arranging a new supply?

The suspicion that I have been using next doors water has only just arisen, I am at the beginning of the journey trying to figure out what’s going on. If things can stay the way they are, I am happy! I am just panicking that a new buyer will not want random pipes running through their lounge !

If money were no object, to save the time and trouble of investigating further, of course I would just engage a professional and if necessary proceed with planning permission application and building works to commence - but I am not in a position to be able to jump to it because of lack of finances.

I bought my house in good faith, having done what I thought was needed to ensure everything was in order. Like many people who are not legally trained, we have to trust the process. I had a full survey prior to purchase, a drainage survey, and of course the usual searches were done during the conveyance process. This water supply coming from next door business was not picked up on any of these. The point where the water enters through a pipe in the party wall was inside a false column in my lounge, and not visible. I had no reason to think anything was amiss till literally last week.

I think (but am not sure at this point in time) that I have a second supply coming into else where in the building and in theory, I could re route some of that to supply the upstairs, but that would involve a huge amount of work, not to mention expense. The building is old, there are no online plans for this property nor any idea of where my pipes actually are, its grade two listed - the walls and floor and made of thick stone, the existing pipework is somewhere in the voids between walls, and in some cases just disappears into the plasterwork, the bathroom itself is tiled floor to ceiling…the list goes on. Additional drains were drawn on the plans which were submitted for planning approval when it was converted, but these are not physically present. Installing these would not only cost for the works to be done, but would involve ripping up a cobbled area which in itself is part of the listed building - all of which leads me to think that the neighbour decided to save money, not put in a new supply, and to re route water from his other property next door….and somehow nobody noticed what he had done.

[wales01man]

Have you access to the stopcock/s that supply the properties if if so can you switch it off and see if your supply is shutoff?
It is possible to trace pipe runs in houses and across land you need to seek out someone who can do this

[Pezza54]

Ask your water company to fit a water meter. There's no charge for a meter. If your son buys the property next door you don't want him paying for the water you use.
When the engineer visits to fit the meter ask him or her where your water supply is coming from. You might be told you need two meters.

[Pezza54]

Companies can save a significant amount of money by changing their business water supplier.
It is possible that the owner of the business, the flat above and the adjacent property saw the cost savings by connecting the flat and adjacent property to the business water supply.

[crazyswede]

Companies can save a significant amount of money by changing their business water supplier.
It is possible that the owner of the business, the flat above and the adjacent property saw the cost savings by connecting the flat and adjacent property to the business water supply.

Possibly…
The owner of the adjoined building next door, (the one with the commercial premises downstairs and the flat upstairs), originally had his workshop occupying that whole building, and he lived in the adjoining building next door, (which is where I now live). At some stage, he bricked up the access from my current home to the building next door, and furthermore split the building next door into the flat and the remaining business. He still owns the flat and the business, but doesn’t reside there, and he rents the business part of the building out to tenants.
I’m more inclined to think that he didn’t want to pay the expense of either re-routing what I believe to be a main supply in part of my house to a new bathroom, so, instead re-rooted some pipes from the business next door through the ceiling to the newly constructed flat and then on through the wall to my property, so he could install a bathroom in what is now my property.
What I’m trying to say is that I don’t think he chose to follow the appropriate rules with regard to planning permission, or this being listed building. This is just my supposition at the moment, and none of it came up in any of the searches when I purchased the property.

if things stayed exactly as they are, then I wouldn’t have a problem because I currently have water supplied to the whole of my property. However, with the next door about to come on the market if somebody else buys it, then I’m guessing I might be in trouble if they decide to remove the pipe that’s going through the wall to mine. Are they allowed to do this?

Metered water would most likely cost me more than my current unmetered situation, and of course, 2 meters would cost double I guess? (I realise it’s calculated on usage, but I guess there’s a standing charge as well I really don’t know - I haven’t investigated). However, if that’s the only or the cheapest way to sort this out, then that’s the route I’ll have to go. At the moment, I’m just collecting ideas before I pose this problem to the current owner. I am not expecting him to be very helpful since it was him that caused this issue in the first place.