Neighbours claim Land Registry have land on my Title by "mistake"

[ceridwen]

Hi, As above. I've owned my house for some years now. It is located in a road that is rather oddly set-up. Title Plan for my house initial Registration was done last century (so my boundaries have been established in law for donkeys years). There is part of my garden that does not have a clear physical boundary on ground around it and it is in between my house and that of new neighbours. These new neighbours want an odd bit of my garden and I won't let them have it obviously, as I need it myself. They can't steal it by claiming "Adverse Possession" (as it's not fenced around etc). So they are going for another way of trying to steal it from me - they've contacted the Land Registry and alleged that LR made "a mistake" and erroneously put that bit of my garden on my title plan by mistake and it should be transferred over to their Title Plan (recently done for first time). All advice would be welcome on how to ensure they don't manage to get the Land Registry to accept their idea of it being "a mistake" and transferring it over to their Title Plan instead and I'd land up having that bit of my land stolen by them as a consequence. (Really wierd thing for them to do to initiate a "boundary dispute" - as they intend to sell their house at some point soon and I will not be selling my own).

[dslippy]

If the Land Registry do correct a mistake, they must pay compensation. They are therefore reluctant to make such amendments.

You say nothimng about the extent of land involved. Small bits of land can be lost under the general boundaries rule. Contacting the Land Registry is still a distance short of applying.
The alternative is requesting a defined boundary. Again, HMLR do not like such applications. They end up being expensive and nobody is ever satisfied.

You say nothing as to the present real world boundary between the properties. How closely does it reflect the recorded boundary.
When did they buy, and was the title unregistered when they bought it? If registered, they bought by reference to the land shown in the title, not any land shown in somebody else's title.

[ceridwen]

Good to hear that the LR would have to pay compensation if it came to it. I don't know how much that would be - but would make them reluctant. I don't actually need any compensation money payable, as I can manage moneywise - but would obviously take it. But I have no intention of "selling" that part of my garden in any way (straightforward bought by them or compensation from LR). My suspicion is that LR send an initial letter to the "real owner" (ie me) and giving a very short deadline maybe deliberately hoping that the person will be away or something and miss the deadline and that's the end of that and they'd say I hadn't replied. Thankfully I'm here and I've already sent back an initial response email saying that I do not agree and requesting them to regard me as having put that in within the deadline and I will send a fuller response shortly. I'm somewhat aware of the general boundaries rule. I know of the (somewhat odd) historical circumstances in which it's come about that that bit of land is mine (it's immediately adjacent to the bit of my garden that is more obviously mine iyswim). It's 3' wide by 57' wide and, if these people managed to steal it from me, I can see it would improve their garden noticeably - but ruin a focal point of mine in the process. I have found a suitable land surveyor and engaged him to come and do a full detailed survey for me (that will match LR requirements) - so I guess that will be that "defined boundary" you refer to when he's done that???? It is a very very odd set-up of land here for several properties - but, most particularly mine and the problem neighbour concerned. They have moved here/bought since Lockdown started and I've owned my house for some years longer than that. The title of theirs was unregistered when they bought it and I see it now is (I have their title plan) and they are stating it should be on their title plan, rather than mine. Mine is a very old title plan (latter part of last century). The previous owner of their house had been there quite some years and she was okay and not a problem. Several of us were sharing weeding etc on a bigger piece of land that my "weeding patch" as I'll call it is part of and it wasnt proving a problem - but these newcomers want to own it (or at least as much as they can of it).

[atticus]

If you object, theLR will start its dispute resolution process.

[ceridwen]

If you object, theLR will start its dispute resolution process.

Thank you.

I'd figured out this is probably what would happen.

What does this dispute resolution process involve please? I'm guessing it's a process that would be more likely to take months (rather than weeks)? Would that be the case? In which case - a right nuisance from my pov to have that issue hanging around in my life for that length of time and I don't want that myself. On the other hand - time is NOT of the essence for me (as I'm not selling and will be just staying here until I'm dead - whenever that is) and I guess time would be of the essence with them (as they intended to do that house up and then sell it right from their first day in it).

[atticus]

The LR guide to its disputes process: https://www.gov.uk/government/public...and-procedures

I have been involved in one such case, albeit with no similarities to yours. The First Tier Tribunal process is long and slow, well over a year.

[ceridwen]

Thank you. I'll have a read of that then. I can't think the neighbours concerned will want this all "hanging around" for that length of time - given that they bought that house in the first place in order to do it up and sell it on for a profit - whereas mine is my home iyswim.

[islandgirl]

The dispute would have to be declared when selling - it would put most buyers off!

[ceridwen]

The dispute would have to be declared when selling - it would put most buyers off!

That is my understanding of the situation. I would think this would be even more the case in the odd little set-up my home is in (small number of houses/peculiar road setup/etc/etc. Anyway - I've now had a chartered surveyor in and he's been using those instruments of theirs/measuring exactly/etc/etc. One of that couple in the problem neighbour house was out pretty fast and accosting him and trying to act threatening. I had warned the surveyor what they're like and I guess he must have encountered this sort of issue before now and I just yelled "Leave him alone!!!" back at the neighbour and he walked away back into his house. I've always felt I had to have any tradespeople etc that come and do work for me here "under my protection against marauding neighbours" and I do protect them if it comes to it. As I see it the Problem Neighbours have 3 options basically: 1. Withdraw their attempt to steal land from me and officially end the dispute they started and we're "back to Normal" - and they can put that house up for sale right away and realise the profit they've always intended to make on it. 2. Continue with the dispute until it's concluded (likely to be lengthy) and try and sell a house with such an obvious Boundary Dispute and obviously I would ensure any estate agent etc involved knew about it. 3. Wait till the Dispute is over one way or another and then sell the house (but that is not likely to be for some time).

My suspicion is they've already had to wait longer than they anticipated before putting that "flipper" house back onto the market - due to various factors of "things are different in this area" and there's been delays with all sorts of things all across the country for last couple of years.

[ceridwen]

So further daylight is emerging as to what exactly is going on. I've had a surveyor out measuring up and now got his plans and he overlaid them on top of the Land Registry 1990 title plan for my property. Unbeknown to me - as I know (of myself) how far forward my garden goes and have been working according to that. But the LR 1990 plan seems to extend that front red line some feet out ahead of what I own afaik. It includes quite a substantial chunk of land that does look as if it belongs to the house concerned. Fortunately - a big box of legal papers from Year of Build came with my house and I've checked back through them and found that my original paper house deeds and that of house beneath match each other and match what I thought I owned (ie not including this chunk of land). So it would appear that the LR made a mistake in 1990 and that "chunk" doesn't belong on my title plan, but does belong on neighbours title plan. So - for all those years my house has apparently "owned" The Chunk (over 30 years!). If "The Chunk" really doesnt belong to my house - then I'm prepared to hand it back BUT I obviously require compensation for all the costs and all the hassle I've had to date because of this issue from the LR. I also want what I thought I/we all had of an easement recorded officially walking over The Chunk for gardening purposes (weeding/picking from my fruit trees/etc) and categoric assurance there will be no (further) attempts from an owner of Neighbour House in perpetuity to ever put up a fence there or hack my fruit trees (as they overhang The Chunk by a few feet and the new neighbour instantly started eyeing them up after they'd moved in (even though I'd talked to them about my garden before they even offered on the house - and they still offered knowing all this).