Tweet
This is my first post here.
It's a pretty long one and seems quite complex but here we go...
I'm supporting a guy who has quite complex mental health issues. He lives in a housing association property.
Just outside and to the left of his front door is a redundant area within a communal hallway. It never has any footfall.
He has a storage box there, a shopping trolley and his bike. Nobody has ever said anything about this in the apparently 20+ years he's lived there.
All of a sudden, at the end of January, he received an email from his housing manager asking him to move the items as they were a fire hazard. There's no room in his flat for the items so it meant he had a meltdown.
I wrote to the housing association four times on his behalf. They never responded for 48 days. When they did respond it was in the form of serving notice on his belongings in line with 'The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977.'
They actually came to the flats and placed the notice on his belongings giving him until yesterday to remove the items.
There are other tenants with items in the hallways but they were not served with a notice.
This guy, despite his mental health issues is very intelligent and after getting over his initial meltdown, he looked into it.
It looked like they didn't serve the notice correctly as they made mistakes in the administration of it. They are supposed to have photographs of the items and estimated values. It also seems that this law relates to abandoned items that someone has left behind after vacating a property?
He's got a friend who is clued up on law so sought his advice.
He put together a formal rebuttal to the notice of removal and also issued notice that he could store the items in the communal areas under "NOTICE OF USE OF COMMUNAL HALLWAYS IN LINE WITH PRESCRIPTIVE EASEMENTS UNDER (i) COMMON LAW, (ii) THE DOCTRINE LOST MODERN GRANT, (iii) THE PRESCRIPTION ACT 1832."
That's above my pay grade but doing some digging it seemed like he might have a case.
So he sent this off via Royal Mail signed for and his housing association received it and signed for it. He heard nothing.
I got a phonecall from the office yesterday asking me to go out and see him as something had happened and he was losing the plot.
I went out and his housing association had turned up to remove his belongings. He was refusing to let them do it. I told them that he had written to them contesting the notice and managed to show them the signature of receipt.
The guy agreed to go back to their office and look into this as they hadn't seen the letter.
An hour later, I've just calmed him down and there's a knock at the door. They're back to remove his belongings. They still haven't read his letter and don't know where it is. There's two of them and my client comes out and sits down in front of his belongings saying they can't move them. They say they can. They try to get to his stuff and he peacefully obstructs them.
They then call the police. The police say they can't attend as it's a civil matter but the housing association should leave and seek legal advice after they've read my clients letter. They then say they will continue with the removal but they don't want to hurt my client.
The call ends and they try to push past my client but he refuses to let them past. It all gets a bit physical as they try to push him out of the way.
I tell them to stop and that I'm calling 999. I speak to the police and am told the same as his housing association were told... it's a civil matter and if a rebuttal has been served then they need to seek legal advice.
Whilst I'm talking to the police they try to push past my client again. I ask the police to send someone out.
The housing association back off after I plead with them.
About half an hour later two police officers arrive. They are given both sides of the story. They conclude it's a civil matter. They state the housing association think they have a right to remove the belongings. They state that my client believes they don't and can reasonably protect his belongings from removal. They say they can't intervene unless there is a breach of the peace.
Immediately my clients housing association guys push past him and start removing his belongings. He attempts to stop them and can't do so without having to physically pull their hands away.
The police pull my client away and have him up against the wall warning him to let the housing association do their job, despite saying earlier they couldn't get involved. My client continues to grab at his belongings and the police get rough with him and get the cuffs out. It's only after I plead with them that they back off but stand in front of him blocking him from interfering with the removal of his belongings.
Two more officers turn up and start talking to my client in a fairly alarming manner threatening him with arrest. I tell them about his mental health issues but I'm told "What's that got to do with it?"
I'm seriously out of my depth in this situation but I have a responsibility to support my client. I manage to calm him down but the housing association take his belongings and the police allow them to do it.
Anyway, a few things don't make sense to me.
The police twice told my clients housing association to go back, find the letter my client sent and seek legal advice. And yet when they actually attended they said both parties had reasonable cause to believe they were correct, but they did nothing when my client was pushed out of the way by his housing association. But when he reasonably tried to protect his belongings, they physically manhandled him and threatened to arrest him.
That doesn't seem right to me?
It also seems wrong that the housing association just turned up without notice, then agreed to leave and look into the matter, but came back an hour later and got quite forceful.
I also thought my clients mental health issues should have been taken into consideration?
I understand the housing association feel there's a fire hazard, but it also seems like the law my client stated to them in the letter did carry some weight?
I'm a bit of nervous wreck after witnessing all of this and seeing my client very scared and frightened.
The police left telling him he should have just let his housing association do their job as they are the experts and know the law.
It's worth noting that he was actually given written permission about two years ago by his housing association to store the items in the hallway. We showed that to them and the police today but they ignored it.
Anyway, maybe I just needed to get this out my system for my own sanity... but I am worried about my client and wonder if there's any form of recourse in this matter?
Thanks in advance...
It's a pretty long one and seems quite complex but here we go...
I'm supporting a guy who has quite complex mental health issues. He lives in a housing association property.
Just outside and to the left of his front door is a redundant area within a communal hallway. It never has any footfall.
He has a storage box there, a shopping trolley and his bike. Nobody has ever said anything about this in the apparently 20+ years he's lived there.
All of a sudden, at the end of January, he received an email from his housing manager asking him to move the items as they were a fire hazard. There's no room in his flat for the items so it meant he had a meltdown.
I wrote to the housing association four times on his behalf. They never responded for 48 days. When they did respond it was in the form of serving notice on his belongings in line with 'The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977.'
They actually came to the flats and placed the notice on his belongings giving him until yesterday to remove the items.
There are other tenants with items in the hallways but they were not served with a notice.
This guy, despite his mental health issues is very intelligent and after getting over his initial meltdown, he looked into it.
It looked like they didn't serve the notice correctly as they made mistakes in the administration of it. They are supposed to have photographs of the items and estimated values. It also seems that this law relates to abandoned items that someone has left behind after vacating a property?
He's got a friend who is clued up on law so sought his advice.
He put together a formal rebuttal to the notice of removal and also issued notice that he could store the items in the communal areas under "NOTICE OF USE OF COMMUNAL HALLWAYS IN LINE WITH PRESCRIPTIVE EASEMENTS UNDER (i) COMMON LAW, (ii) THE DOCTRINE LOST MODERN GRANT, (iii) THE PRESCRIPTION ACT 1832."
That's above my pay grade but doing some digging it seemed like he might have a case.
So he sent this off via Royal Mail signed for and his housing association received it and signed for it. He heard nothing.
I got a phonecall from the office yesterday asking me to go out and see him as something had happened and he was losing the plot.
I went out and his housing association had turned up to remove his belongings. He was refusing to let them do it. I told them that he had written to them contesting the notice and managed to show them the signature of receipt.
The guy agreed to go back to their office and look into this as they hadn't seen the letter.
An hour later, I've just calmed him down and there's a knock at the door. They're back to remove his belongings. They still haven't read his letter and don't know where it is. There's two of them and my client comes out and sits down in front of his belongings saying they can't move them. They say they can. They try to get to his stuff and he peacefully obstructs them.
They then call the police. The police say they can't attend as it's a civil matter but the housing association should leave and seek legal advice after they've read my clients letter. They then say they will continue with the removal but they don't want to hurt my client.
The call ends and they try to push past my client but he refuses to let them past. It all gets a bit physical as they try to push him out of the way.
I tell them to stop and that I'm calling 999. I speak to the police and am told the same as his housing association were told... it's a civil matter and if a rebuttal has been served then they need to seek legal advice.
Whilst I'm talking to the police they try to push past my client again. I ask the police to send someone out.
The housing association back off after I plead with them.
About half an hour later two police officers arrive. They are given both sides of the story. They conclude it's a civil matter. They state the housing association think they have a right to remove the belongings. They state that my client believes they don't and can reasonably protect his belongings from removal. They say they can't intervene unless there is a breach of the peace.
Immediately my clients housing association guys push past him and start removing his belongings. He attempts to stop them and can't do so without having to physically pull their hands away.
The police pull my client away and have him up against the wall warning him to let the housing association do their job, despite saying earlier they couldn't get involved. My client continues to grab at his belongings and the police get rough with him and get the cuffs out. It's only after I plead with them that they back off but stand in front of him blocking him from interfering with the removal of his belongings.
Two more officers turn up and start talking to my client in a fairly alarming manner threatening him with arrest. I tell them about his mental health issues but I'm told "What's that got to do with it?"
I'm seriously out of my depth in this situation but I have a responsibility to support my client. I manage to calm him down but the housing association take his belongings and the police allow them to do it.
Anyway, a few things don't make sense to me.
The police twice told my clients housing association to go back, find the letter my client sent and seek legal advice. And yet when they actually attended they said both parties had reasonable cause to believe they were correct, but they did nothing when my client was pushed out of the way by his housing association. But when he reasonably tried to protect his belongings, they physically manhandled him and threatened to arrest him.
That doesn't seem right to me?
It also seems wrong that the housing association just turned up without notice, then agreed to leave and look into the matter, but came back an hour later and got quite forceful.
I also thought my clients mental health issues should have been taken into consideration?
I understand the housing association feel there's a fire hazard, but it also seems like the law my client stated to them in the letter did carry some weight?
I'm a bit of nervous wreck after witnessing all of this and seeing my client very scared and frightened.
The police left telling him he should have just let his housing association do their job as they are the experts and know the law.
It's worth noting that he was actually given written permission about two years ago by his housing association to store the items in the hallway. We showed that to them and the police today but they ignored it.
Anyway, maybe I just needed to get this out my system for my own sanity... but I am worried about my client and wonder if there's any form of recourse in this matter?
Thanks in advance...
Comment