Ownership of Private Drive

[piccadilly]

Thank You.

I have had a chat with the neighbour and they refuse to stop parking.

I have no experience of dealing with a solicitor apart from house sale/purchase.

If I own the land then I have presumed I have the power to stop the parking and to stop the hedge cutting - but maybe not.

Fire engine access is of concern.

[des8]

As you have a right of way over the land you could apply for an injunction to stop your neighbour obstructing it.
Court cost for applying £275, and you request that it is refunded by your neighbour.

That is the theory, and fine if he does not mount a successful dispute on the grounds it is only minimally obstructed.
If he does win, and has employed a solicitor you could face having to pay his costs.
It also wrecks any chance of exchanging Christmas cards, and if you come to sell the dispute will have to be declared to potential purchasers.

Your decision whether or not it is worth pursuing.

PS the fire brigade will manhandle or tow any vehicle in their way.

[piccadilly]

DES8,

Thank You.

I think we are past the Christmas card stage already!

The fire brigade would be delayed in man handling or towing the vehicle - time is of the essence in this circumstance so I think I will have a chat with the fire officer anyway,

But I take you point - owning the land would not necessarily mean I could prevent the parking.

Regards,

[piccadilly]

I wouldn't do anything until the "owner" can provide proof of ownership other than his belief!

DES8,

Before I speak to the solicitor and incur fees and so I don’t waste time - do you know how proof of ownership is established? This could be an impossible task? - “all UK land is owned by somebody” I have been told by this helpful forum and also the Land Registry.

Thank you for your help.

Kind Regards,

[des8]

The "owner" will have to produce the title deeds showing the land belonged to his ancestor, and then trace his inheritance through the generations by reference to birth and death certificates, wills, deeds of gift etc.
At same time shewing no one else had a claim to the land through inheritance etc
In other words he has to prove an unbroken chain of ownership from ancestor to himself, as without that he will not have good title to the land.

If title deeds are not available (eg lost or destroyed) they will need to be reconstituted
This might prove to be a very expensive exercise for the would be seller, and will probably only give him possessory title,.so at this point he might give up if the sale price doesn't cover his costs

I certainly wouldn't be instructing a solicitor yet

[piccadilly]

DES8,

Thank you for your usual helpful and comprehensive reply.

If the “owner” obtains possessory title does it mean he can sell the land? and secondly is it likely that the solicitor who handled the original conveyance (albeit 90 years ago) will have the title deeds to the drive?

Regards,

[des8]

As he is not in possession of the land he won't actually even obtain that (it is what is awarded in cases of adverse possession & I got a bit carried away as most people claiming ownership are actually in possession of it!)

Who knows where the title deeds are.
Might be with a solicitor, a bank, or under a bed if they still exist.
Quite possibly destroyed if papers were reviewed or cleared out when a person passed away and their importance was not recognised.

[EnglandPi]

When the land registery went from paper to digital not everything was retained.

[piccadilly]

Thank you for your replies.

It looks as though it may not be possible to determine ownership - the person I have identified is the sole beneficiary of his mother’s will (but the land is not specifically mentioned) and he believes that is the case for her and his grandmother, and so on, going back to the original vendor but he doesn’t have any documents showing title.

Is it the case all land is owned by somebody but in some cases impossible to know or find who!?

[des8]

Your concluding comment is correct.

Normally if one finds such a block of land and fences it off and uses it without interference eventually after 12 years one can make an application for adverse possession, and possibly be awarded a possessory title.
However you are unable to do this as you already have an interest in the land (your easement to pass over it)


If you do find a way round this, please come back and let us know as it may help others in a similar position

[piccadilly]

DES8,

Thank you - I will contact the original conveyancing solicitors firm who still operate in the town.

- otherwise I cannot see a way forward