Ownership of Private Drive

[piccadilly]

UKMickey - Thank You.

I was told by the helpful lady at the Land Registry that all land in the UK is owned by somebody.

if bona vacantia applies does that mean the Crown owns the land?

[Guest]

Sounds tricky why can’t common sense prevail?

[des8]

bona vacantia land is land which is ownerless and so has passed to the Crown.
Generally it refers to land left ownerless after a person has died intestate and without blood relatives, (and there are time limits for claiming it).

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi.../bona-vacantia

In this case it is just unregistered land where the owner cannot be identified. It is not necessarily ownerless and will not be classed as bona vacantia

[Ukmicky]

bona vacantia land is land which is ownerless and so has passed to the Crown.
Generally it refers to land left ownerless after a person has died intestate and without blood relatives, (and there are time limits for claiming it).

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi.../bona-vacantia

In this case it is just unregistered land where the owner cannot be identified. It is not necessarily ownerless and will not be classed as bona vacantia

Land like this was often owned by the developers of the estate who built the houses .

Many of these estates were built a long time ago and many of those companies have been dissolved and no longer exist. In such circumstances the land will be bona vacantia . Bona vacantia land isn’t just land which was owned by people who died without any heirs it’s also left over assets of dissolved companies.

[des8]

But from earlier posts we know the properties were owned by an individual, not a company

[Ukmicky]

Ok so I am dyslexic (I am, really ) but I can’t find anything that says the two properties were built on land owned by a private individual rather than a company

[des8]

Post 6 & 14 suggest a private individual

[Ukmicky]

Post 6 & 14 suggest a private individual

We know that the builder didn’t live in or build any of the properties for themselves as the only retained land is the land the row runs over and because both properties have easements over the retained land. So the chances are the building of the houses was a business venture in order to make money .

The builder being known name wise doesn’t mean it wasn’t a company . Like my friend Brian who is a builder and his company is named after himself Macormack &sons .

I can see why you think from the information provided suggests the builder was an individual but there is not enough info to know for sure.

[piccadilly]

Sorry to restart the discussion on this thread.

I have spoken to the ancestor of the original vendor of the land and he has visited the site and he believes he owns the drive. We have discussed a sale price that is agreeable to both parties.

I need to speak to the solicitor to see how we can make this happen.

My neighbours have started to park on the drive, and this partially blocks the entrance to my drive, and they are constantly cutting the hedge that I would own if I bought the land.

My question is - can I actually stop them from doing this?

They have right of access to their property only - but “custom and practice” may dictate otherwise.

If they park there what can I do? - short of having the car towed away.

And if they start to cut the hedge it would be difficult to stop them.

A difficult one to answer but – suggestions welcome!

Kind Regards,

[des8]

I wouldn't do anything until the "owner" can provide proof of ownership other than his belief!

If the neighbour blocking the right of way is your neighbour at house 1 you can (if speaking to him does not satisfactorily end the blocking) if the blocking is substantial, already apply for a court injunction to stop it.
You can't have the vehicle towed (without running the risk of counter action!).

If they continue to prune the hedge after it becomes your property, again a court injunction is the way forward if a chat over the garden fence doesn't work

[piccadilly]

DES8,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I take your point on ownership - I was hoping the solicitor may be be able to help with this.

I wouldn’t say the blocking is substantial - delivery vans can get through if they take it slowly but I doubt whether a fire engine could - although house fires are rare (touch wood) my disabled mother living with us in her 90’s would not be able to get out and would need rescuing.Time is of the essence in these circumstances - I speak from experience having been caught up building fire many years ago when I was much younger and fitter.

The blocking would have to be classed as substantial interference so a court would probably not be supportive?

I have no experience of court injunctions and how to apply ,but have been told the cost would be in the region of £30,000 and I may lose.

When you mention counter action - I presume this is a claim against me if the vehicle is damaged when towed?

[des8]

Whether or not the obstruction is substantial depends entirely on the circumstances.
Here's an article you might find interesting: https://becket-chambers.co.uk/2018/0...ay-obstructor/

As to cost it should be avoidable by discussing the situation with the neighbour.
if it comes to court I'd be amazed if it reached the tens of thousands (unless employing top rated barristers!).
Neighbour disputes do have a reputation for escalating costs, but this would be fairly simple;
-You apply for injunction to keep RoW unobstructed
-Neighbour disputes it (altho' on what grounds it is difficult to imagine)
-You both provide evidence
-Court decides

If you should damage the vehicle whilst moving it, you could face an accusation of causing criminal damage

[piccadilly]

DES8

Thank You again for replying promptly.

I did mention this to a solicitor prior to running up a bill and she indicated the £30,000 cost - but this seems excessive to me.

The neighbour has said their parking is "custom and practice" and any reasonable driver should be able to get through.

But I do have concerns about the fire engine access.

Regards,

[des8]

Custom & practice balderdash!

RoWs, once arisen will continue indefinitely unless it is extinguished or released, and the servient tenement cannot (should not) obstruct it.

But looks as if you are going to have some difficult chats with your neighbour to try and persuade him of the errors of his way.
Taking legal action (besides stress and possible cost implications) may have repercussions if you ever come to sell as the dispute will have to be declared to prospective buyers

[EnglandPi]

To adverse posses it your use would need to be inconsistent with your current legally held rights to use and maintain the land. You then would need to jump through all the other hoops required to prove adverse possession.

The chances of the grandson being able to prove he has the right to inherit and then having the deeds proving ownership allowing for first Registration so it can be sold after all these years is probably close to zero.

it’s probably bona vacantia land but proving either way is probably impossible after all this time. Think carefully before your throw good money at a solicitor for no benefit.

I totally agree, I have had some considerable experience in these matters and you need to be careful do don’t open a can of worms because what at first appears to be a simple matter becomes time consuming and costly and at the end of the day there appears to be no advantage in owning land you already have an easement over.